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On the toothpaste technology front I’ve been using Livionex[1] for years now and I can’t believe it hasn’t caught a larger following, especially with the HN cro

On the toothpaste technology front I’ve been using Livionex[1] for years now and I can’t believe it hasn’t caught a larger following, especially with the HN crowd. You can feel the plaque reduction. Occasionally I’ve had to use traditional paste while traveling and it’s really quite a gross sensation now that I’m accustomed to the gel. I have no affiliation with the company other than being a very satisfied customer. [1]https://getlivfresh.com/how-it-works/ https://getlivfresh.com/how-it-works/

totalZero 6y ago
If they add some stannous fluoride and make it foamy I'd probably try it. The Verdict: The gel, called Livionex, removed plaque better than Colgate Total—a popular product used as a comparison—in a study at the University of California, Irvine. The results look promising, but longer studies with more subjects are needed, particularly since the new gel doesn’t contain fluoride, dentists say. “Fluoride has 150 years of solid research proving that it does prevent cavities and tooth decay,” says Sally Cram, a Washington, D.C., periodontist and a spokeswoman for the American Dental Association. If you’re thinking about trying the new gel, Dr. Cram suggests talking to your dentist about your risk for tooth decay and considering using fluoride mouthwash along with it. [0] [0]https://www.wsj.com/articles/anti-plaque-dental-gel-excels-1470068313 https://www.wsj.com/articles/anti-plaque-dental-gel-excels-1...
- Logon90 6y ago
  Wow, can't believe they are still pushing the fluoride thing. It's almost as if they cannot handle the cognitive dissonance of people having good dental results without fluoride. Certainly not 150 years of solid research, more like, since WWII, when the goverment got sued by fluoride laborers.
korm 6y ago
I'll wait for more and longer term studies before I try it. Maybe it slowly erodes teeth, or destroys amalgam fillings since it's EDTA.
- Qub3d 6y ago
  I was going to say... EDTA is also suspected to be the primary active ingredient in Evapo-Rust: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xf3ma1XFt9Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xf3ma1XFt9Y
  - elliekelly 6y ago
    So? That doesn't mean anything. Water is an ingredient in both, too. EDTA is used in food, medicine, and dentistry. It's ingested, inhaled, and injected into people every day.[1] In the video you linked Adam Savage reads out the safety warnings from the Evapo-Rust bottle ("non-toxic, biodegradable, safe on the skin and eyes") and from the Evapo-Rust SDS[2] it seems like a pretty darn safe product. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylenediaminetetraacetic_acid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylenediaminetetraacetic_aci... [2]https://evapo-rust.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Evapo-Rust-Safety-Data-Sheet-2018.pdf https://evapo-rust.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Evapo-Rust...
    - korm 6y ago
      Acids such as citric acid are also very safe, but definitely not in the context of brushing teeth as they dissolve enamel. There simply isn't enough safety data _in that context_ for dentists to start recommending EDTA vs regular fluoride toothpaste. In one in vitro study I found, EDTA is shown to cause erosion https://www.medigraphic.com/pdfs/odon/uo-2012/uoi121b.pdf https://www.medigraphic.com/pdfs/odon/uo-2012/uoi121b.pdf so I'd say more studies are required.
atombender 6y ago
Interesting. Here [1] is a study that tests the efficacy this product. No idea if this open access journal is reputable or even peer-reviewed. Looks like the active ingredient, edathamil, is another name for EDTA, a chelating agent which is also used as a preservative, so it should be safe. I wish these newer toothpaste were cheaper, though: • Livionex — $14.26/fl oz ($20 for 1.75 fl oz) • Boka — $3/fl oz ($12 for 4 fl oz) • Dr. Collins Biomin — $2.39/fl oz ($8 for 3.5 fl oz) • Sensodyne with Novamin — $4.95/fl oz ($13.40 for 2.70 fl oz) [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4454341/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4454341/

totalZero 6y ago

If they add some stannous fluoride and make it foamy I'd probably try it. The Verdict: The gel, called Livionex, removed plaque better than Colgate Total—a popular product used as a comparison—in a study at the University of California, Irvine. The results look promising, but longer studies with more subjects are needed, particularly since the new gel doesn’t contain fluoride, dentists say. “Fluoride has 150 years of solid research proving that it does prevent cavities and tooth decay,” says Sally Cram, a Washington, D.C., periodontist and a spokeswoman for the American Dental Association. If you’re thinking about trying the new gel, Dr. Cram suggests talking to your dentist about your risk for tooth decay and considering using fluoride mouthwash along with it. [0] [0]https://www.wsj.com/articles/anti-plaque-dental-gel-excels-1470068313 https://www.wsj.com/articles/anti-plaque-dental-gel-excels-1...

Logon90 6y ago
Wow, can't believe they are still pushing the fluoride thing. It's almost as if they cannot handle the cognitive dissonance of people having good dental results without fluoride. Certainly not 150 years of solid research, more like, since WWII, when the goverment got sued by fluoride laborers.

korm 6y ago

I'll wait for more and longer term studies before I try it. Maybe it slowly erodes teeth, or destroys amalgam fillings since it's EDTA.

Qub3d 6y ago
I was going to say... EDTA is also suspected to be the primary active ingredient in Evapo-Rust: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xf3ma1XFt9Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xf3ma1XFt9Y
- elliekelly 6y ago
  So? That doesn't mean anything. Water is an ingredient in both, too. EDTA is used in food, medicine, and dentistry. It's ingested, inhaled, and injected into people every day.[1] In the video you linked Adam Savage reads out the safety warnings from the Evapo-Rust bottle ("non-toxic, biodegradable, safe on the skin and eyes") and from the Evapo-Rust SDS[2] it seems like a pretty darn safe product. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylenediaminetetraacetic_acid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylenediaminetetraacetic_aci... [2]https://evapo-rust.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Evapo-Rust-Safety-Data-Sheet-2018.pdf https://evapo-rust.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Evapo-Rust...
  - korm 6y ago
    Acids such as citric acid are also very safe, but definitely not in the context of brushing teeth as they dissolve enamel. There simply isn't enough safety data _in that context_ for dentists to start recommending EDTA vs regular fluoride toothpaste. In one in vitro study I found, EDTA is shown to cause erosion https://www.medigraphic.com/pdfs/odon/uo-2012/uoi121b.pdf https://www.medigraphic.com/pdfs/odon/uo-2012/uoi121b.pdf so I'd say more studies are required.

atombender 6y ago

Interesting. Here [1] is a study that tests the efficacy this product. No idea if this open access journal is reputable or even peer-reviewed. Looks like the active ingredient, edathamil, is another name for EDTA, a chelating agent which is also used as a preservative, so it should be safe. I wish these newer toothpaste were cheaper, though: • Livionex — $14.26/fl oz ($20 for 1.75 fl oz) • Boka — $3/fl oz ($12 for 4 fl oz) • Dr. Collins Biomin — $2.39/fl oz ($8 for 3.5 fl oz) • Sensodyne with Novamin — $4.95/fl oz ($13.40 for 2.70 fl oz) [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4454341/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4454341/