10 ms·

Maybe it's just me but I've noticed that free software (especially of the GPL kind) has been getting lots of hate lately. Is it because of the recent rms debacl

by ceres 6y ago

Maybe it's just me but I've noticed that free software (especially of the GPL kind) has been getting lots of hate lately. Is it because of the recent rms debacle? I never noticed it before.

cjfd 6y ago
I am not sure it is because of rms. It does start to feel like an orchestrated campaign.....
formerly_proven 6y ago
Meh, probably comes from corpos who are irritated they can’t use the software the way they’d like (in violation of the GPL that is).
- boogies 6y ago
  Not mutually exclusive, “corpos” are a major force behind the anti-rms drama.
benjohnson 6y ago
I think you made a great observation. If you did want to control the future of information flowing from person to person, I can think of no higher threat than free software. Givin that premise, I would expect to see a lot more opposition to free software if large governent and large business intrest decide to consolidate their power and think that open communication is a hindrance.
ericwood 6y ago
GPL, especially GPLv3, have always been contentious. There was also very recently a high-profile issue involving it and a ruby gem used by Rails that caused a lot of headaches for a lot of people, so it's top of mind for many.
- boogies 6y ago
  > issue involving it and a ruby gem used by Rails I hadn’t heard of this, I assume you mean https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26566925 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26566925?
  - ericwood 6y ago
    Yep! That's the one
tarsinge 6y ago
I think this is due to the kind of corporate take over of Open source, without judging if this is a bad thing or not. The whole Github/MIT licence scene simply did not exist back in the days, it was either closed source or GPL. It's no surprise the hate is building now that non-GPL open source is part of the marketing strategy of software companies like Google or Facebook.
- Delk 6y ago
  I'm not sure I agree with that reasoning generally, but specifically this is IMO not quite true: > The whole Github/MIT licence scene simply did not exist back in the days, it was either closed source or GPL. BSD-licensed software, and probably also MIT-licensed and whatever non-copyleft licenses there are, has been a thing for a long time. I distinctly remember seeing discussions and opinions regarding copyleft vs non-copyleft open source in the early 2000's. Aside from BSDs themselves, there have been all kinds of non-copyleft licensed software all along. It might be that more liberal (i.e. non-copyleft) licenses have been gaining more popularity and that the emphasis has moved from GPL to non-copyleft licensing. It might also be that's partially driven by the dominance Google et al. have on tech culture. But as a whole I'm not sure that hate (if it exists) towards GPL-oriented culture follows from that. As a stab in the dark, it could also be that there's a new generation of people for whom the older days of the GNU project and the free software movement sound somehow archaic or "not modern" now, or there could be some other kind of a cultural shift. People don't always embrace newer trends because of some kind of a clear economical or other direct motive. Economic interests of the current powers that be might of course be one of those things that affect cultural changes, but I wouldn't necessarily buy it that it's the only reason.
detaro 6y ago
Do you really think this post expresses "hate" for free software?
jrm4 6y ago
As someone who does not get paid to write software, I don't like it, but I definitely understand it and I don't think anyone's being a "bad guy" -- as power in software shifts from near-monopolies, e.g. Microsoft, to smaller individuals and groups creating software -- they're likely to prefer license that are easier to make money with, e.g. by doing something like "charging by the copy."
DoreenMichele 6y ago
There's a global pandemic on. Lots of people are cranky as all hell because they are out of work (or working from home, etc), have hardly left their house for months, relatives have died and they live in fear for their lives and so forth. Lots of random BS on the internet is getting lots of hatred because the entire world has a metric fuckton of stress on its plate and access to a global platform called "social media" with which to try to vent about it as the only thing they know how to do to get through the damn day.
david_allison 6y ago
Quite a few reasons. Open Source is more in the news and it's self-reinforcing, people are incentivised to write content that gives them clicks. * Global pandemic and uptick in open source contributions * Elastic/Amazon * RMS GPL's often a point of debate due to the virality of the license. AGPL is significantly more problematic due to the risks that it poses to corporations.[0] IMO, overall this is a net positive, there's a lot more debate on long-term sustainability for open source, and a significant push for more corporate backing. [0]: https://opensource.google/docs/using/agpl-policy/ https://opensource.google/docs/using/agpl-policy/

by ceres 6y ago

Maybe it's just me but I've noticed that free software (especially of the GPL kind) has been getting lots of hate lately. Is it because of the recent rms debacle? I never noticed it before.

cjfd 6y ago

I am not sure it is because of rms. It does start to feel like an orchestrated campaign.....

formerly_proven 6y ago

Meh, probably comes from corpos who are irritated they can’t use the software the way they’d like (in violation of the GPL that is).

boogies 6y ago
Not mutually exclusive, “corpos” are a major force behind the anti-rms drama.

benjohnson 6y ago

I think you made a great observation. If you did want to control the future of information flowing from person to person, I can think of no higher threat than free software. Givin that premise, I would expect to see a lot more opposition to free software if large governent and large business intrest decide to consolidate their power and think that open communication is a hindrance.

ericwood 6y ago

GPL, especially GPLv3, have always been contentious. There was also very recently a high-profile issue involving it and a ruby gem used by Rails that caused a lot of headaches for a lot of people, so it's top of mind for many.

boogies 6y ago
> issue involving it and a ruby gem used by Rails I hadn’t heard of this, I assume you mean https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26566925 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26566925?
- ericwood 6y ago
  Yep! That's the one

tarsinge 6y ago

I think this is due to the kind of corporate take over of Open source, without judging if this is a bad thing or not. The whole Github/MIT licence scene simply did not exist back in the days, it was either closed source or GPL. It's no surprise the hate is building now that non-GPL open source is part of the marketing strategy of software companies like Google or Facebook.

Delk 6y ago
I'm not sure I agree with that reasoning generally, but specifically this is IMO not quite true: > The whole Github/MIT licence scene simply did not exist back in the days, it was either closed source or GPL. BSD-licensed software, and probably also MIT-licensed and whatever non-copyleft licenses there are, has been a thing for a long time. I distinctly remember seeing discussions and opinions regarding copyleft vs non-copyleft open source in the early 2000's. Aside from BSDs themselves, there have been all kinds of non-copyleft licensed software all along. It might be that more liberal (i.e. non-copyleft) licenses have been gaining more popularity and that the emphasis has moved from GPL to non-copyleft licensing. It might also be that's partially driven by the dominance Google et al. have on tech culture. But as a whole I'm not sure that hate (if it exists) towards GPL-oriented culture follows from that. As a stab in the dark, it could also be that there's a new generation of people for whom the older days of the GNU project and the free software movement sound somehow archaic or "not modern" now, or there could be some other kind of a cultural shift. People don't always embrace newer trends because of some kind of a clear economical or other direct motive. Economic interests of the current powers that be might of course be one of those things that affect cultural changes, but I wouldn't necessarily buy it that it's the only reason.

detaro 6y ago

Do you really think this post expresses "hate" for free software?

jrm4 6y ago

As someone who does not get paid to write software, I don't like it, but I definitely understand it and I don't think anyone's being a "bad guy" -- as power in software shifts from near-monopolies, e.g. Microsoft, to smaller individuals and groups creating software -- they're likely to prefer license that are easier to make money with, e.g. by doing something like "charging by the copy."

DoreenMichele 6y ago

There's a global pandemic on. Lots of people are cranky as all hell because they are out of work (or working from home, etc), have hardly left their house for months, relatives have died and they live in fear for their lives and so forth. Lots of random BS on the internet is getting lots of hatred because the entire world has a metric fuckton of stress on its plate and access to a global platform called "social media" with which to try to vent about it as the only thing they know how to do to get through the damn day.

david_allison 6y ago

Quite a few reasons. Open Source is more in the news and it's self-reinforcing, people are incentivised to write content that gives them clicks. * Global pandemic and uptick in open source contributions * Elastic/Amazon * RMS GPL's often a point of debate due to the virality of the license. AGPL is significantly more problematic due to the risks that it poses to corporations.[0] IMO, overall this is a net positive, there's a lot more debate on long-term sustainability for open source, and a significant push for more corporate backing. [0]: https://opensource.google/docs/using/agpl-policy/ https://opensource.google/docs/using/agpl-policy/