5 ms·

USS Johnston: Sub dives to deepest-known shipwreck

67 points by samizdis 6y ago

jacksonkmarley 6y ago
I kept thinking the story sounded like science fiction while I was reading it, then I realised why the name of the sub sounded familiar. [0] https://fivedeeps.com/home/technology/names/ https://fivedeeps.com/home/technology/names/
smitty1e 6y ago
> The 115m-long US Navy destroyer sank during the Battle off Samar in 1944 after a fierce battle with a large fleet of Japanese warships. I tear up to think of this, as a retired sailor. "The Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors"[1] is really about standing and delivering. Historians may not agree, but the Battle Off Samar[3] was a modern analog of Thermopylae[3]. One especially poignant moment was when the 5"/38 (of one of the ships, I don't remember if it was precisely this one) gun crew had lost ship's power and continued to train, elevate and fire manually. Until the breech was so hot that the next round cooked off and relieved them all of duty. It isn't often that the foe renders honors while they steam through your wreckage. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Last-Stand-Tin-Sailors-Extraordinary/dp/0553381482/ref=sr_1_1 https://www.amazon.com/Last-Stand-Tin-Sailors-Extraordinary/... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_off_Samar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_off_Samar [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Thermopylae https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Thermopylae
- mc32 6y ago
  I remember watching the battle of Leyte Gulf on the history channel when it was about actual history. Impressive and tragic for both sides, but damned glad we won in the end.
- protomyth 6y ago
  A respectful but laced with British humor recounting of the battle is https://youtu.be/4AdcvDiA3lE https://youtu.be/4AdcvDiA3lE
- CobaltFire 6y ago
  One of the things that many people don’t know or understand about that battle is just how overmatched the US DD’s were. However, they fought so hard and fired so accurately that the Japanese honestly thought they were fighting more and bigger ships. The price they paid was brutal, but the lives they saved and the effect they had on the overall war is much larger than commonly known. Massive respect from this AD CPO. I only hope our current Navy could fight as hard and effectively.
  - mc32 6y ago
    These days they seem to run into other ships...[1] so I wouldn’t count on them being prepared, but who knows, maybe the others are even worse prepared. [1] https://www.lowyinstitute.org/the-interpreter/us-naval-accidents-revisited https://www.lowyinstitute.org/the-interpreter/us-naval-accid...
    - duxup 6y ago
      Seems a little distasteful to come up with that in response to someone is respecting folks who died doing their job.
      - mc32 6y ago
        None intended. The US Navy has cut training and had sailors watch videos instead of having them go through actual training. If you don’t train our sailors, what can we expect? It’s not disrespect, it’s the Navy doing the wrong thing. Sacrificing proper Navy training for who knows what.
        pbronez 6y ago
        For shoreside duties in the decades-long CENTCOM campaigns.
        JackFr 6y ago
        Fewer SEAL teams. (Maybe none?). Focus on driving ships which is your job.
- joshuamorton 6y ago
  From [2]: Gunner's Mate Paul H. Carr was in charge of the aft 5 in (127 mm) gun mount, which had fired nearly all of its 325 stored rounds in 35 minutes before a breech explosion caused by the gun's barrel overheating. Carr was found dying at his station, begging for help loading the last round he was holding into the breech.[34] He was awarded a Silver Star, and a guided missile frigate was later named for him. The guided missile frigates Samuel B. Roberts (FFG-58) and Copeland (FFG-25) were named for the ship and its captain.
- dwohnitmok 6y ago
  Also a rather famous occurrence of a mistakenly decrypted message (nonsense padding was thought to be actual plaintext) sent by Admiral Nimitz to his suboridinate Admiral Halsey. WHERE IS TASK FORCE THIRTY FOUR THE WORLD WONDERS "the world wonders" was supposed to be nonsense padding to make enemy cryptanalysis harder, but was mistakenly thought to be part of the original message and passed on by Halsey's radio operator, causing Halsey to believe that Nimitz was sarcastically criticizing him and led to an angry outburst from Halsey, which in turn potentially led Halsey to delay help. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_world_wonders https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_world_wonders
- noir_lord 6y ago
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AdcvDiA3lE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AdcvDiA3lE Drachinifel covered it in his usual dry-witted way.
- gardenfelder 6y ago
  "Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors" is available a zillion places other than amazon.
underseacables 6y ago
Victor Vescovo Doesn’t get enough credit for his invention. Truly amazing.
wdb 6y ago
Years ago, had a collab with the US navy for practice shooting, they used an old navy fregatte as target in open sea. That was in the early 2000s
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
nostrademons 6y ago
Amazing that this battle happened almost within sight of land, and yet the wreck is 4 miles down in one of the deepest parts of the ocean. By Google Maps, the Philippine trench is about 20-30 miles offshore from Samar. The slope in that part of the ocean must be extreme, almost a sheer cliff.
- clort 6y ago
  Its funny because if you think about it, 20 miles along and 4 miles down is only a 5:1 gradient rather than anything like the sheer cliff you are envisaging. The ocean is deep but also wide. I have a chart of the Atlantic which is about 1m square. Although the Atlantic is several miles deep and the chart is only paper, the thickness of the paper is not far off scale..
- buran77 6y ago
  These trenches have a slope of ~10-15 degrees on the steep side (and ~5 degrees on the gentle side). So it would go down 1mi for every 4mi further from the shore. To get to 4mi deep it only needs 12mi of horizontal distance in the steepest of cases. Even the Mariana Trench is imagined by most people looking like a canyon (almost vertical walls), when it actually looks more like sloped plains.
Veen 6y ago
The name "Limiting Factor" reminded me of the ship names in Ian M. Banks' Culture novels, so I wondered if they were inspired by his books. According to Five Deep's FAQ, all their vessels are named after Culture ships: the Limiting Factor is from The Player of Games. Their support ship is Pressure Drop and it has a utility vessel called Little Rascal, both of which are also the names of Culture ships. > The financial sponsor behind the Limiting Factor’s design and construction, Victor Vescovo, is a great admirer of the science fiction genre and in particular of the “Culture” series by Scottish author Ian M. Banks. In the books, the space-faring vessels are self-aware, highly symbiotic with their human counterparts, and grant themselves distinctive names. “Limiting Factor,” as well as “Pressure Drop” are two of the ship names in the series that seemed to fit their character. Thus, the names are an homage to the author, who passed away in 2013. https://fivedeeps.com/faq/ https://fivedeeps.com/faq/
- walrus01 6y ago
  I'm waiting for someone to name a ship with the full name of the Mistake not...
acmdas 6y ago
My father served on the U.S.S. Kadashan Bay, CVE-76, part of Taffy 2 during the Leyte landings. The bravery of the men of the Johnston, the other destroyers and the aircraft crews who so harassed Vice-Adm. Kurita's ships that they turned tail saved innumerable lives, including that of Lt. Homer Smith. I would not be here without their sacrifice - bless them all.

67 points by samizdis 6y ago

I kept thinking the story sounded like science fiction while I was reading it, then I realised why the name of the sub sounded familiar. [0] https://fivedeeps.com/home/technology/names/ https://fivedeeps.com/home/technology/names/

smitty1e 6y ago

> The 115m-long US Navy destroyer sank during the Battle off Samar in 1944 after a fierce battle with a large fleet of Japanese warships. I tear up to think of this, as a retired sailor. "The Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors"[1] is really about standing and delivering. Historians may not agree, but the Battle Off Samar[3] was a modern analog of Thermopylae[3]. One especially poignant moment was when the 5"/38 (of one of the ships, I don't remember if it was precisely this one) gun crew had lost ship's power and continued to train, elevate and fire manually. Until the breech was so hot that the next round cooked off and relieved them all of duty. It isn't often that the foe renders honors while they steam through your wreckage. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Last-Stand-Tin-Sailors-Extraordinary/dp/0553381482/ref=sr_1_1 https://www.amazon.com/Last-Stand-Tin-Sailors-Extraordinary/... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_off_Samar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_off_Samar [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Thermopylae https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Thermopylae

mc32 6y ago
I remember watching the battle of Leyte Gulf on the history channel when it was about actual history. Impressive and tragic for both sides, but damned glad we won in the end.
protomyth 6y ago
A respectful but laced with British humor recounting of the battle is https://youtu.be/4AdcvDiA3lE https://youtu.be/4AdcvDiA3lE
CobaltFire 6y ago
One of the things that many people don’t know or understand about that battle is just how overmatched the US DD’s were. However, they fought so hard and fired so accurately that the Japanese honestly thought they were fighting more and bigger ships. The price they paid was brutal, but the lives they saved and the effect they had on the overall war is much larger than commonly known. Massive respect from this AD CPO. I only hope our current Navy could fight as hard and effectively.
- mc32 6y ago
  These days they seem to run into other ships...[1] so I wouldn’t count on them being prepared, but who knows, maybe the others are even worse prepared. [1] https://www.lowyinstitute.org/the-interpreter/us-naval-accidents-revisited https://www.lowyinstitute.org/the-interpreter/us-naval-accid...
  - duxup 6y ago
    Seems a little distasteful to come up with that in response to someone is respecting folks who died doing their job.
    - mc32 6y ago
      None intended. The US Navy has cut training and had sailors watch videos instead of having them go through actual training. If you don’t train our sailors, what can we expect? It’s not disrespect, it’s the Navy doing the wrong thing. Sacrificing proper Navy training for who knows what.
      - pbronez 6y ago
        For shoreside duties in the decades-long CENTCOM campaigns.
      - JackFr 6y ago
        Fewer SEAL teams. (Maybe none?). Focus on driving ships which is your job.
joshuamorton 6y ago
From [2]: Gunner's Mate Paul H. Carr was in charge of the aft 5 in (127 mm) gun mount, which had fired nearly all of its 325 stored rounds in 35 minutes before a breech explosion caused by the gun's barrel overheating. Carr was found dying at his station, begging for help loading the last round he was holding into the breech.[34] He was awarded a Silver Star, and a guided missile frigate was later named for him. The guided missile frigates Samuel B. Roberts (FFG-58) and Copeland (FFG-25) were named for the ship and its captain.
dwohnitmok 6y ago
Also a rather famous occurrence of a mistakenly decrypted message (nonsense padding was thought to be actual plaintext) sent by Admiral Nimitz to his suboridinate Admiral Halsey. WHERE IS TASK FORCE THIRTY FOUR THE WORLD WONDERS "the world wonders" was supposed to be nonsense padding to make enemy cryptanalysis harder, but was mistakenly thought to be part of the original message and passed on by Halsey's radio operator, causing Halsey to believe that Nimitz was sarcastically criticizing him and led to an angry outburst from Halsey, which in turn potentially led Halsey to delay help. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_world_wonders https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_world_wonders
noir_lord 6y ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AdcvDiA3lE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AdcvDiA3lE Drachinifel covered it in his usual dry-witted way.
gardenfelder 6y ago
"Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors" is available a zillion places other than amazon.

underseacables 6y ago

Victor Vescovo Doesn’t get enough credit for his invention. Truly amazing.

wdb 6y ago

Years ago, had a collab with the US navy for practice shooting, they used an old navy fregatte as target in open sea. That was in the early 2000s

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

nostrademons 6y ago

Amazing that this battle happened almost within sight of land, and yet the wreck is 4 miles down in one of the deepest parts of the ocean. By Google Maps, the Philippine trench is about 20-30 miles offshore from Samar. The slope in that part of the ocean must be extreme, almost a sheer cliff.

clort 6y ago
Its funny because if you think about it, 20 miles along and 4 miles down is only a 5:1 gradient rather than anything like the sheer cliff you are envisaging. The ocean is deep but also wide. I have a chart of the Atlantic which is about 1m square. Although the Atlantic is several miles deep and the chart is only paper, the thickness of the paper is not far off scale..
buran77 6y ago
These trenches have a slope of ~10-15 degrees on the steep side (and ~5 degrees on the gentle side). So it would go down 1mi for every 4mi further from the shore. To get to 4mi deep it only needs 12mi of horizontal distance in the steepest of cases. Even the Mariana Trench is imagined by most people looking like a canyon (almost vertical walls), when it actually looks more like sloped plains.

Veen 6y ago

The name "Limiting Factor" reminded me of the ship names in Ian M. Banks' Culture novels, so I wondered if they were inspired by his books. According to Five Deep's FAQ, all their vessels are named after Culture ships: the Limiting Factor is from The Player of Games. Their support ship is Pressure Drop and it has a utility vessel called Little Rascal, both of which are also the names of Culture ships. > The financial sponsor behind the Limiting Factor’s design and construction, Victor Vescovo, is a great admirer of the science fiction genre and in particular of the “Culture” series by Scottish author Ian M. Banks. In the books, the space-faring vessels are self-aware, highly symbiotic with their human counterparts, and grant themselves distinctive names. “Limiting Factor,” as well as “Pressure Drop” are two of the ship names in the series that seemed to fit their character. Thus, the names are an homage to the author, who passed away in 2013. https://fivedeeps.com/faq/ https://fivedeeps.com/faq/

walrus01 6y ago
I'm waiting for someone to name a ship with the full name of the Mistake not...

acmdas 6y ago

My father served on the U.S.S. Kadashan Bay, CVE-76, part of Taffy 2 during the Leyte landings. The bravery of the men of the Johnston, the other destroyers and the aircraft crews who so harassed Vice-Adm. Kurita's ships that they turned tail saved innumerable lives, including that of Lt. Homer Smith. I would not be here without their sacrifice - bless them all.