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You are an island. Our borders are porous. Sure, you can lock down and know that no one is sneaking across your borders. Sab Francisco locks down, and someone d

You are an island. Our borders are porous. Sure, you can lock down and know that no one is sneaking across your borders. Sab Francisco locks down, and someone drives in from out of town and keeps the spread going.

ryandrake 6y ago
The island excuse is getting old. Is there any evidence that “national border crossing by land only” was a significant source of spread, compared to community spread and air travel? On the contrary, there are non-islands that also were able to significantly slow the spread using actual lockdowns. And there were islands that did not control the spread due to not implementing lockdowns (UK). It doesn’t seem like Island is a really significant factor.
- geoduck14 6y ago
  Hmm. Valid point. I see that [1] 6.7 M people visited Australia in 2020. And 80 M [2] visited the US in 2019. 18 M [3] came from Mexico in 2019. Perhaps Australia being an island isn't important. Perhaps it is because so few people visited you and you have such low population density. [1] https://camperchamp.com.au/statistics/australia/#:~:text=How%20many%20tourists%20visit%20Australia%20each%20year%3F%209.3,in%20annual%20tourism%20visits%20is%20expected%20in%202021 https://camperchamp.com.au/statistics/australia/#:~:text=How.... [2] https://www.statista.com/statistics/214686/number-of-international-visitors-to-the-us/#:~:text=In%202019%2C%20there%20were%2079.26%20million%20international%20visitors,You%20need%20a%20Single%20Account%20for%20unlimited%20access https://www.statista.com/statistics/214686/number-of-interna.... [3] https://www.statista.com/statistics/214765/number-of-mexican-visitors-to-the-us/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/214765/number-of-mexican...
  - LilBytes 6y ago
    Even with that, we had controls on state lines, country boundaries and county boundaries. Literal army check points on these state lines during the harshest lock downs. There's a reason why the Melbourne/Victorian outbreak which was the worst we've seen in Australia was kept to that city. Noting that exceptions were managed, we still allowed domestic travel for freight and similar so food and goods were still received and sent albeit with delays. I'm not suggesting the US, Europe and other countries would been as successful as we have been. It's too difficult to say. But what I am saying, is the US and Europe didn't even fucking try. One thing Australia does have in its favour, is every single state has its own separate state ran government. And each state held others accountable, there's been a lot of political mud slinging but our states enforced those borders and enforced them well. Where the Federal government did the same for international borders (with less success than state borders, e.g New South Wales and Federal Government made a mess of the Ruby Princess: https://theconversation.com/ruby-princess-inquiry-blames-nsw-health-officials-for-debacle-144512 https://theconversation.com/ruby-princess-inquiry-blames-nsw...). As I mentioned in my grand fathered comment. An anecdote for sure, but I know of people who literally went to Europe from the US for a holiday over the 2020/2021 Christmas. Little to no controls were used. This is why Covid was and is spreading. There's absolutely no desire for either Europe or the US to stop international travellers and Covid spreading events. I was galled to find the UK didn't make international travel even difficult until the more/highly infectious UK Covid variant came to be and that was only in the last few months. What the fuck was happening prior to then? I am sympathetic. Countries like Spain have been economically destroyed by Covid because they're so reliant on tourism. Australia's regions where tourism is the largest part of the local GDP (Far North Queensland, Cairns as an example) are really struggling and even with the Federal Government printing money like there's no tomorrow. That relief is being wound down and it's now starting to bite. But even here we provided more support to business and local people more than what I've seen from other countries internationally. It's appalling really. There just seems so little appetite from people on the ground or the countries ruling parties to commit to lock down and providing financial support to their workers so they can afford to not go to work. But, I abhore the 'what you did wouldn't work here' rhetoric. It's bullshit. No one fucking tried.
spamizbad 6y ago
If being an island is the secret sauce why did the UK do so poorly?

ryandrake 6y ago

The island excuse is getting old. Is there any evidence that “national border crossing by land only” was a significant source of spread, compared to community spread and air travel? On the contrary, there are non-islands that also were able to significantly slow the spread using actual lockdowns. And there were islands that did not control the spread due to not implementing lockdowns (UK). It doesn’t seem like Island is a really significant factor.

geoduck14 6y ago
Hmm. Valid point. I see that [1] 6.7 M people visited Australia in 2020. And 80 M [2] visited the US in 2019. 18 M [3] came from Mexico in 2019. Perhaps Australia being an island isn't important. Perhaps it is because so few people visited you and you have such low population density. [1] https://camperchamp.com.au/statistics/australia/#:~:text=How%20many%20tourists%20visit%20Australia%20each%20year%3F%209.3,in%20annual%20tourism%20visits%20is%20expected%20in%202021 https://camperchamp.com.au/statistics/australia/#:~:text=How.... [2] https://www.statista.com/statistics/214686/number-of-international-visitors-to-the-us/#:~:text=In%202019%2C%20there%20were%2079.26%20million%20international%20visitors,You%20need%20a%20Single%20Account%20for%20unlimited%20access https://www.statista.com/statistics/214686/number-of-interna.... [3] https://www.statista.com/statistics/214765/number-of-mexican-visitors-to-the-us/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/214765/number-of-mexican...
- LilBytes 6y ago
  Even with that, we had controls on state lines, country boundaries and county boundaries. Literal army check points on these state lines during the harshest lock downs. There's a reason why the Melbourne/Victorian outbreak which was the worst we've seen in Australia was kept to that city. Noting that exceptions were managed, we still allowed domestic travel for freight and similar so food and goods were still received and sent albeit with delays. I'm not suggesting the US, Europe and other countries would been as successful as we have been. It's too difficult to say. But what I am saying, is the US and Europe didn't even fucking try. One thing Australia does have in its favour, is every single state has its own separate state ran government. And each state held others accountable, there's been a lot of political mud slinging but our states enforced those borders and enforced them well. Where the Federal government did the same for international borders (with less success than state borders, e.g New South Wales and Federal Government made a mess of the Ruby Princess: https://theconversation.com/ruby-princess-inquiry-blames-nsw-health-officials-for-debacle-144512 https://theconversation.com/ruby-princess-inquiry-blames-nsw...). As I mentioned in my grand fathered comment. An anecdote for sure, but I know of people who literally went to Europe from the US for a holiday over the 2020/2021 Christmas. Little to no controls were used. This is why Covid was and is spreading. There's absolutely no desire for either Europe or the US to stop international travellers and Covid spreading events. I was galled to find the UK didn't make international travel even difficult until the more/highly infectious UK Covid variant came to be and that was only in the last few months. What the fuck was happening prior to then? I am sympathetic. Countries like Spain have been economically destroyed by Covid because they're so reliant on tourism. Australia's regions where tourism is the largest part of the local GDP (Far North Queensland, Cairns as an example) are really struggling and even with the Federal Government printing money like there's no tomorrow. That relief is being wound down and it's now starting to bite. But even here we provided more support to business and local people more than what I've seen from other countries internationally. It's appalling really. There just seems so little appetite from people on the ground or the countries ruling parties to commit to lock down and providing financial support to their workers so they can afford to not go to work. But, I abhore the 'what you did wouldn't work here' rhetoric. It's bullshit. No one fucking tried.

spamizbad 6y ago

If being an island is the secret sauce why did the UK do so poorly?