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An analogy about computer code isn't a valid counter point.

by 99_00 6y ago

yellowapple 6y ago
I'm trying to put it in terms this audience might better understand, since said audience doesn't seem to understand it when presented plainly (as has been done already, by various others). Though in hindsight, there's a better analogy: So when you run a program on your computer, your computer doesn't directly execute that machine code right from the disk; rather, it loads a copy of it into memory first, and then executes that copy. If something changes that running copy (for example, by loading a DLL, or by using something like Cheat Engine to tweak the process memory), the original copy on the disk is untouched. Likewise, when cells make proteins from your genetic code, they don't do so by "executing" the DNA directly. Rather, they make a copy of (a.k.a. transcribe) the DNA - this copy being "messenger" RNA or mRNA - and then that RNA gets tweaked and spliced and such before eventually making it to a ribosome to be "executed" - i.e. matched up to amino acids to make proteins. An mRNA vaccine therefore works analogously to a DLL plugin: just like how loading a plugin doesn't change a program's binary as it exists on-disk, the vaccine's mRNA doesn't modify the DNA in your cells' nuclei - it instead goes directly to the ribosomes and gets matched up with amino acids to make proteins, leaving your DNA alone. mRNA, like a running program, is short-lived; eventually it'll finish running, and then that's that. Since no actual DNA was modified, that's the end of it: the proteins that mRNA coded are all that remain. If more proteins are needed - e.g. for another round of training your immune system to attack SARS-CoV-2 spike proteins - then you'll need a second shot of mRNA, which will again go right to the ribosomes, get matched up with amino acids to make proteins, then that's that.
- 99_00 6y ago
  You're not addressing the point. You are just describing protein syntheses and comparing it to a computer program. >the deliberate modification of the characteristics of an organism by manipulating its genetic material. Is mRNA genetic material? If yes, then is adding mRNA manipulating the organisms genetic material? Is a process that puts foreign mRNA into people's cells deliberate modification of an organism?
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    > Is mRNA genetic material? No, genes—well, in humans—are DNA. (RNA viruses and retroviruses have RNA genes.) mRNA is, somewhat simplistically, a message format between genetic material and protein synthesis machinery. It has a short lifespan, so adding it has no lasting effect of the type that would come from genetic change.
  - yellowapple 6y ago
    > You're not addressing the point. I feel like I've addressed it pretty thoroughly. Let's try again: > Is mRNA genetic material? As far as eukaryotes (like all animals, plants, etc. - including humans) and most prokaryotes are concerned: no, it is not. mRNA - per above - is a temporary copy of genetic material, not genetic material itself. > If yes, then is adding mRNA manipulating the organisms genetic material? No, because the organism's actual genetic material - i.e. the DNA in the cell nuclei - remains untouched. > Is a process that puts foreign mRNA into people's cells deliberate modification of an organism? Not in and of itself, no, because merely providing some arbitrary mRNA doesn't necessarily modify the organism itself - and especially not permanently - because (again) the underlying DNA is not modified.
    - 99_00 6y ago
      Thank you, that clears the question for me.

An analogy about computer code isn't a valid counter point.

by 99_00 6y ago

An analogy about computer code isn't a valid counter point.

I'm trying to put it in terms this audience might better understand, since said audience doesn't seem to understand it when presented plainly (as has been done already, by various others). Though in hindsight, there's a better analogy: So when you run a program on your computer, your computer doesn't directly execute that machine code right from the disk; rather, it loads a copy of it into memory first, and then executes that copy. If something changes that running copy (for example, by loading a DLL, or by using something like Cheat Engine to tweak the process memory), the original copy on the disk is untouched. Likewise, when cells make proteins from your genetic code, they don't do so by "executing" the DNA directly. Rather, they make a copy of (a.k.a. transcribe) the DNA - this copy being "messenger" RNA or mRNA - and then that RNA gets tweaked and spliced and such before eventually making it to a ribosome to be "executed" - i.e. matched up to amino acids to make proteins. An mRNA vaccine therefore works analogously to a DLL plugin: just like how loading a plugin doesn't change a program's binary as it exists on-disk, the vaccine's mRNA doesn't modify the DNA in your cells' nuclei - it instead goes directly to the ribosomes and gets matched up with amino acids to make proteins, leaving your DNA alone. mRNA, like a running program, is short-lived; eventually it'll finish running, and then that's that. Since no actual DNA was modified, that's the end of it: the proteins that mRNA coded are all that remain. If more proteins are needed - e.g. for another round of training your immune system to attack SARS-CoV-2 spike proteins - then you'll need a second shot of mRNA, which will again go right to the ribosomes, get matched up with amino acids to make proteins, then that's that.

99_00 6y ago
You're not addressing the point. You are just describing protein syntheses and comparing it to a computer program. >the deliberate modification of the characteristics of an organism by manipulating its genetic material. Is mRNA genetic material? If yes, then is adding mRNA manipulating the organisms genetic material? Is a process that puts foreign mRNA into people's cells deliberate modification of an organism?
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > Is mRNA genetic material? No, genes—well, in humans—are DNA. (RNA viruses and retroviruses have RNA genes.) mRNA is, somewhat simplistically, a message format between genetic material and protein synthesis machinery. It has a short lifespan, so adding it has no lasting effect of the type that would come from genetic change.
- yellowapple 6y ago
  > You're not addressing the point. I feel like I've addressed it pretty thoroughly. Let's try again: > Is mRNA genetic material? As far as eukaryotes (like all animals, plants, etc. - including humans) and most prokaryotes are concerned: no, it is not. mRNA - per above - is a temporary copy of genetic material, not genetic material itself. > If yes, then is adding mRNA manipulating the organisms genetic material? No, because the organism's actual genetic material - i.e. the DNA in the cell nuclei - remains untouched. > Is a process that puts foreign mRNA into people's cells deliberate modification of an organism? Not in and of itself, no, because merely providing some arbitrary mRNA doesn't necessarily modify the organism itself - and especially not permanently - because (again) the underlying DNA is not modified.
  - 99_00 6y ago
    Thank you, that clears the question for me.