4 ms·

But the USA are the embodiment of democracy. How can't you choose something better? /s

by sm4rk0 6y ago

jfengel 6y ago
Because a lot of people believe that if you're hungry, it's because you're stupid, lazy, or morally deficient, and thus deserve to be hungry. I suspect you think I'm joking. I'm not. "Work is better than welfare" is a common refrain. Here it is on a state government web site: https://www.dshs.wa.gov/esa/chapter-1-engaging-parents-workfirst/11-overview https://www.dshs.wa.gov/esa/chapter-1-engaging-parents-workf... It's widely considered that if you feed people for free, they will have no incentive to work. They will live off of your effort, have more children who will learn from their parents that work isn't required, and possibly commit crimes to obtain more. There is a genuine fear that they will literally lead more comfortable lives than you do by working. Again, I suspect you think I'm exaggerating, or that this is an extreme minority opinion. This is a very common opinion among Americans -- effectively universal among conservatives, and significant among progressives. We don't choose better because the things that you think of as "better" are supported by only a minority of Americans. Most Americans think it will make us lazy, weak, and stupid.
- kmonsen 6y ago
  This is like the ultimate example of this, coincidentally at the very beginning of the pandemic (before anyone could know how bad it would be) the previous administration proposed to cut SNAP, or what is commonly called food stamps by ~30%: https://www.cbpp.org/research/food-assistance/presidents-2021-budget-would-cut-food-assistance-for-millions-and https://www.cbpp.org/research/food-assistance/presidents-202... It would also make work requirements for adults to be eligible.
- kbelder 6y ago
  You don't think work is better than welfare (at least for anybody that's capable of work)? I find that weird, and a little sad.
  - fl0wenol 6y ago
    I think the point is that people want to be useful, especially if they're good at something. If people can't work (for whatever reason), we really shouldn't be trying to make them. That just burdens their coworkers/peers with their lack of productivity and/or bad attitudes. We need to abandon these protestant values because they're not doing anyone any good.
  - maxerickson 6y ago
    I don't want to speak for the other poster, but school lunch programs are a pretty stupid place to exercise this preference. Kids do better in school when they aren't hungry, there, we don't need to discuss what incentives their parents should have because there is a good reason to feed them.
  - lazyasciiart 6y ago
    That's a biiiiig caveat you added there. I think that a guarantee of having enough money to feed yourself is better than just about any other option. I think people individually and collectively benefit from others holding jobs, but they can also benefit from unpaid activities like family caregiving. I think the idea that having jobs is good but nobody would do it if they didn't have to, and therefore it is good to threaten people with hunger until they are motivated enough to get one, is absolutely terrible.
    - jfengel 6y ago
      they can also benefit from unpaid activities like family caregiving And creating art, and starting new software companies, and volunteering. There are lots of things that are worth doing but that nobody will pay for (or won't pay enough to live on). And people want to do them, but instead get pushed into literally any kind of work -- even work that we'd be better off automating or simply doing without.
- sm4rk0 6y ago
  I believe. You can ask them what's their plan for a moment when their job position gets replaced by a robot or an AWS Lambda function: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYUuWWnfRsk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYUuWWnfRsk
mbrodersen 6y ago
USA stopped being a democracy a long time ago. It is a country run by large corporations and billionaires. If you want to experience well functioning democracies then you need to look at European countries like Norway, Denmark, and Sweden.

But the USA are the embodiment of democracy. How can't you choose something better? /s

by sm4rk0 6y ago

But the USA are the embodiment of democracy. How can't you choose something better? /s

Because a lot of people believe that if you're hungry, it's because you're stupid, lazy, or morally deficient, and thus deserve to be hungry. I suspect you think I'm joking. I'm not. "Work is better than welfare" is a common refrain. Here it is on a state government web site: https://www.dshs.wa.gov/esa/chapter-1-engaging-parents-workfirst/11-overview https://www.dshs.wa.gov/esa/chapter-1-engaging-parents-workf... It's widely considered that if you feed people for free, they will have no incentive to work. They will live off of your effort, have more children who will learn from their parents that work isn't required, and possibly commit crimes to obtain more. There is a genuine fear that they will literally lead more comfortable lives than you do by working. Again, I suspect you think I'm exaggerating, or that this is an extreme minority opinion. This is a very common opinion among Americans -- effectively universal among conservatives, and significant among progressives. We don't choose better because the things that you think of as "better" are supported by only a minority of Americans. Most Americans think it will make us lazy, weak, and stupid.

kmonsen 6y ago
This is like the ultimate example of this, coincidentally at the very beginning of the pandemic (before anyone could know how bad it would be) the previous administration proposed to cut SNAP, or what is commonly called food stamps by ~30%: https://www.cbpp.org/research/food-assistance/presidents-2021-budget-would-cut-food-assistance-for-millions-and https://www.cbpp.org/research/food-assistance/presidents-202... It would also make work requirements for adults to be eligible.
kbelder 6y ago
You don't think work is better than welfare (at least for anybody that's capable of work)? I find that weird, and a little sad.
- fl0wenol 6y ago
  I think the point is that people want to be useful, especially if they're good at something. If people can't work (for whatever reason), we really shouldn't be trying to make them. That just burdens their coworkers/peers with their lack of productivity and/or bad attitudes. We need to abandon these protestant values because they're not doing anyone any good.
- maxerickson 6y ago
  I don't want to speak for the other poster, but school lunch programs are a pretty stupid place to exercise this preference. Kids do better in school when they aren't hungry, there, we don't need to discuss what incentives their parents should have because there is a good reason to feed them.
- lazyasciiart 6y ago
  That's a biiiiig caveat you added there. I think that a guarantee of having enough money to feed yourself is better than just about any other option. I think people individually and collectively benefit from others holding jobs, but they can also benefit from unpaid activities like family caregiving. I think the idea that having jobs is good but nobody would do it if they didn't have to, and therefore it is good to threaten people with hunger until they are motivated enough to get one, is absolutely terrible.
  - jfengel 6y ago
    they can also benefit from unpaid activities like family caregiving And creating art, and starting new software companies, and volunteering. There are lots of things that are worth doing but that nobody will pay for (or won't pay enough to live on). And people want to do them, but instead get pushed into literally any kind of work -- even work that we'd be better off automating or simply doing without.
sm4rk0 6y ago
I believe. You can ask them what's their plan for a moment when their job position gets replaced by a robot or an AWS Lambda function: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYUuWWnfRsk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYUuWWnfRsk

mbrodersen 6y ago

USA stopped being a democracy a long time ago. It is a country run by large corporations and billionaires. If you want to experience well functioning democracies then you need to look at European countries like Norway, Denmark, and Sweden.