5 ms·

Eben Moglen: The alternate net we need, and how we can build it ourselves

106 points by zoowar 15y ago

atakan_gurkan 15y ago
He is talking about the plans and especially the motivation for the Freedom Box project: http://freedomboxfoundation.org/ http://freedomboxfoundation.org/
tzs 15y ago
After he claimed that Apple is sponsoring LLVM/clang solely to undermine freedom, and said “The human race has a susceptibility to harm, but Mr. Zuckerberg has attained an unenviable record. He has done more harm to the human race than anybody else his age", I have a hard time taking Moglen seriously.
- hristov 15y ago
  Neither of these claims were made in the linked video btw. I would definitely recommend the linked video. I am not sure when or how he made the LLVM claim, but I would understand Zuckerberg claim. Eben considers the right of anonymity a very important right and facebook has made the biggest assault on anonymity on the net ever. It is actually erie how they have managed to remove anonymity from a huge swats of the net without the users complaining at all.
  - loup-vaillant 15y ago
    > It is actually erie how they have managed […] Hidden, uncertain, common costs just aren't accounted for. The loss of freedom is easily invisible, and the actual cost very hard to measure. Plus, it's a common. More individual freedom for others often mean more for yourself. (Case in point: anonymity: more other nodes means you're harder to find.) With those three effects, it's no wonder "no one cares" about freedom. Facebook feels gratis, and even free, because (1) you don't pay money, and (2) you have an easy way to talk with other people. The advertisement you can live with, and the spying you don't even see. Few people could actually link Facebook's spying to changes in their present lives. (I'm not sure those that can are at liberty to speak their mind right now.)
- atakan_gurkan 15y ago
  He may be making extreme claims, but his accomplishments are truly amazing. This video is about one of his future plans; ignore the claims if you want, but listen what he is working on and why.
technomancy 15y ago
The irony of this not being viewable in WebM is pretty thick.
- taken11 15y ago
  works for me
  - technomancy 15y ago
    Hmm, you're right... apparently Youtube decided to turn off the html5 preview for my account. Re-enabled it and it looks fine. Boggles my mind why it's not enabled as a fallback for browsers without flash.
chefsurfing 15y ago
Eben is a very skilled rhetorician. Anyone trying to sell anything would do well to take notes. If he had a dash more narrative to the story, I think he'd nail it. "Ok, that's the next 15 years of your life and mine. You're going to try to end anonymity on earth and I'm going to try to keep it. Because without anonymity the human race will not be human anymore." "They [governments, business] are not going to be left to their devices... They are going to be left to our devices. And our devices are going to be about Freedom!"
- maeon3 15y ago
  With anonymity, I can risk being who I want to be. I can say what I want to say and do what I want to do regardless of what anybody else wants. Without anonymity, I can't risk being who I want to be, saying what I want to say, doing what I want to do, because someone else might find out and give me trouble. Encryption should be declared a munition, and get a slot right next to the right to bear arms. Governments shall not infringe on the right of the people to encrypt any data that they use between two parties. This is not a trivial matter, this is the future of the human collective taking form here. Will everything we do be tracked, or will some of it be private? Here is Eben talking about what he's doing on CBS: http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7358702n http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7358702n
  - shareme 15y ago
    Encryption was a munition and it was outlawed for individuals to have it..see PGP history for details
  - loup-vaillant 15y ago
    > Encryption should be declared a munition, and get a slot right next to the right to bear arms. Err, I don't think so, based on the following utilitarian argument: First, more freedom in the network means more freedom in general. Evidence for this is easy to find. Encryption in particular does one thing and one thing only: preventing eavesdropping. That helps freedom of though, and even of speech (for small groups on a chat room, for instance). Second, more arms means more dead people (not much, compared to car crashes and ageing, but still). Evidence is even easier to find. And as far as I know, it doesn't increase freedom in any interesting way. Even beyond my judgement call, it should now be obvious that encryption and ammunitions have very different effects. Using one as an analogy for the other would be wildly inaccurate.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
Ygor 15y ago
When I think about all the issues being addressed in many talks such as this, one thought comes to mind: "This is why we can’t have nice things." We have the technology, the skill and the knowledge to do so much we couldn't even dream about a decade ago, but everything we do seems to raise so many new issues of possible abuse. Always the same dual-use dilemma [1]. With every step forward, we need to make an additional step in every other direction just to make sure we aren't walking the plank. [] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_use_technology http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_use_technology
EGreg 15y ago
Why not just use freenet? :) Or perfectdark
- a3_nm 15y ago
  He wants to make something that everyone can use. Freenet isn't there yet. (This doesn't meen that the FreedomBox software couldn't be built on top of Freenet or ship with Freenet, however.)

106 points by zoowar 15y ago

He is talking about the plans and especially the motivation for the Freedom Box project: http://freedomboxfoundation.org/ http://freedomboxfoundation.org/

tzs 15y ago

After he claimed that Apple is sponsoring LLVM/clang solely to undermine freedom, and said “The human race has a susceptibility to harm, but Mr. Zuckerberg has attained an unenviable record. He has done more harm to the human race than anybody else his age", I have a hard time taking Moglen seriously.

hristov 15y ago
Neither of these claims were made in the linked video btw. I would definitely recommend the linked video. I am not sure when or how he made the LLVM claim, but I would understand Zuckerberg claim. Eben considers the right of anonymity a very important right and facebook has made the biggest assault on anonymity on the net ever. It is actually erie how they have managed to remove anonymity from a huge swats of the net without the users complaining at all.
- loup-vaillant 15y ago
  > It is actually erie how they have managed […] Hidden, uncertain, common costs just aren't accounted for. The loss of freedom is easily invisible, and the actual cost very hard to measure. Plus, it's a common. More individual freedom for others often mean more for yourself. (Case in point: anonymity: more other nodes means you're harder to find.) With those three effects, it's no wonder "no one cares" about freedom. Facebook feels gratis, and even free, because (1) you don't pay money, and (2) you have an easy way to talk with other people. The advertisement you can live with, and the spying you don't even see. Few people could actually link Facebook's spying to changes in their present lives. (I'm not sure those that can are at liberty to speak their mind right now.)
atakan_gurkan 15y ago
He may be making extreme claims, but his accomplishments are truly amazing. This video is about one of his future plans; ignore the claims if you want, but listen what he is working on and why.

technomancy 15y ago

The irony of this not being viewable in WebM is pretty thick.

taken11 15y ago
works for me
- technomancy 15y ago
  Hmm, you're right... apparently Youtube decided to turn off the html5 preview for my account. Re-enabled it and it looks fine. Boggles my mind why it's not enabled as a fallback for browsers without flash.

chefsurfing 15y ago

Eben is a very skilled rhetorician. Anyone trying to sell anything would do well to take notes. If he had a dash more narrative to the story, I think he'd nail it. "Ok, that's the next 15 years of your life and mine. You're going to try to end anonymity on earth and I'm going to try to keep it. Because without anonymity the human race will not be human anymore." "They [governments, business] are not going to be left to their devices... They are going to be left to our devices. And our devices are going to be about Freedom!"

maeon3 15y ago
With anonymity, I can risk being who I want to be. I can say what I want to say and do what I want to do regardless of what anybody else wants. Without anonymity, I can't risk being who I want to be, saying what I want to say, doing what I want to do, because someone else might find out and give me trouble. Encryption should be declared a munition, and get a slot right next to the right to bear arms. Governments shall not infringe on the right of the people to encrypt any data that they use between two parties. This is not a trivial matter, this is the future of the human collective taking form here. Will everything we do be tracked, or will some of it be private? Here is Eben talking about what he's doing on CBS: http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7358702n http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7358702n
- shareme 15y ago
  Encryption was a munition and it was outlawed for individuals to have it..see PGP history for details
- loup-vaillant 15y ago
  > Encryption should be declared a munition, and get a slot right next to the right to bear arms. Err, I don't think so, based on the following utilitarian argument: First, more freedom in the network means more freedom in general. Evidence for this is easy to find. Encryption in particular does one thing and one thing only: preventing eavesdropping. That helps freedom of though, and even of speech (for small groups on a chat room, for instance). Second, more arms means more dead people (not much, compared to car crashes and ageing, but still). Evidence is even easier to find. And as far as I know, it doesn't increase freedom in any interesting way. Even beyond my judgement call, it should now be obvious that encryption and ammunitions have very different effects. Using one as an analogy for the other would be wildly inaccurate.

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

Ygor 15y ago

When I think about all the issues being addressed in many talks such as this, one thought comes to mind: "This is why we can’t have nice things." We have the technology, the skill and the knowledge to do so much we couldn't even dream about a decade ago, but everything we do seems to raise so many new issues of possible abuse. Always the same dual-use dilemma [1]. With every step forward, we need to make an additional step in every other direction just to make sure we aren't walking the plank. [] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_use_technology http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_use_technology

EGreg 15y ago

Why not just use freenet? :) Or perfectdark

a3_nm 15y ago
He wants to make something that everyone can use. Freenet isn't there yet. (This doesn't meen that the FreedomBox software couldn't be built on top of Freenet or ship with Freenet, however.)