8 ms·

What's going on here in Myanmar should be a lesson to all people. Here is the US, I'd like to see a lobby to have Communications Act amended to remove any powe

What's going on here in Myanmar should be a lesson to all people. Here is the US, I'd like to see a lobby to have Communications Act amended to remove any power of the government or business to shut down communications networks, systems or inter-connections. This idea that governments can protect us from ourselves is foolish.

drak0n1c 6y ago
Governments at a certain point aren't trying to protect us from ourselves. They're trying to protect themselves from us.
- falcor84 6y ago
  'People shouldn't be afraid of their government. Governments should be afraid of their people.'
  - jfengel 6y ago
    Myanmar has a government that's afraid of its people. It's not working out so great. What seems to work best is when the government and the people like each other, and nobody's afraid. That doesn't mean that they have to agree, but it does mean that they disagree politely, and seek to resolve disagreements with compromises that everybody can live with. That requires a certain amount of trust and good faith. Once there's widespread fear, it's not going to end well for anybody.
    - LordDragonfang 6y ago
      I think the people of Myanmar are more afraid of the government than the government is of them. That's kind of the important part of that idiom there.
maxerickson 6y ago
It's not like a law is going to stop a malicious government from literally cutting a connection. Do you really mean to propose that network operators not be able to disconnect from people that don't pay or are disruptive to their operations? I feel like you need to be a little more clear about what responsibilities you think private entities have.
karatinversion 6y ago
No. The Myanmar military’s coup, and the killing of hundreds of protesters, were already illegal. If the US joint chiefs of staff arrested the president and congress, the CEO of T-mobile would not refuse to switch off mobile networks if half a dozen marines with loaded ARs showed up at his house with an order to do so.
- lostlogin 6y ago
  > the CEO of T-mobile would not refuse to switch off mobile networks if half a dozen marines with loaded ARs showed up at his house with an order to do so. If people with guns threatened me and the way out was to turn off a network, I think I’d do as they ‘asked’.
  - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
    If I was worried about it I would build a process that didn't have a single point of failure like that.
- wnevets 6y ago
  Absolutely. However it still would be nice if it US Government didn't have the legal authority to do so. There is a difference between an internet kill switch controlled and required by the government ala russia and marines storming T-Mobile's HQ. Not to mention the optics matter, even to dictators.
jdavis703 6y ago
There are several sibling posts saying we don’t have to worry about the US government cutting communications. That’s just not true. A major US transit agency halted cell service to disrupt protests: https://www.aclunc.org/blog/five-years-later-barts-cell-service-shutdown-still-wakeup-call https://www.aclunc.org/blog/five-years-later-barts-cell-serv....
- marshmallow_12 6y ago
  but again, if it gets as bad as in Myanmar, a)laws wont help b) we will have bigger problems. Is shutting down internet a small step towards a coup, as opposed to being the fruit of one? In the case of the US, i don't think it's likely short or medium term. What about police abusing this power? That's a local government problem, not a national one, so it's different to what's going on in myanmar.
  - JumpCrisscross 6y ago
    > if it gets as bad as in Myanmar, a)laws wont help b) we will have bigger problems It gets as bad as it has in Myanmar when one doesn't have those laws. If you ban cutting communications, it normalizes the expectation. Cutting communications now becomes personally and politically risky in a way it isn't if it's in the grey area. For an example, see India's slow slide into authoritarianism in this respect. Cutting communications in Kashmir was legal, but iffy. That normalized, legally and culturally, the mechanism. Now, communications are routinely cut across the country. All that said, Myanmar fell to a military coup. That's a different failure mechanism from elected leaders getting too comfortable on their thrones.
    - baybal2 6y ago
      We have a member called 2GKasmiri, would be appropriate to hear him here.
    - selimthegrim 6y ago
      They cut communications regularly across the country well before 2019
vkou 6y ago
> What's going on here in Myanmar should be a lesson to all people. Yes. The lesson is that when your country is taken over by a military coup, and guys with assault rifles come to shut down the internet, pre-existing laws and rhetoric about free speech and open access and all that other good stuff become completely irrelevant. You are looking at a wet street, and are claiming that it caused rain. If you actually want to prevent this from happening here, the step that you should worry about is the coup and the killings, not the internet getting shut down in the following week.
vsareto 6y ago
They're never going to shut it down in the US. Too many people posted incriminating stuff during Jan. 6th. It's way too useful to turn it off.
adrr 6y ago
How is that a lesson? Its coup, and the military has ignored the rule of law and seized control.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
refurb 6y ago
What good a is law when there are people with guns ready to shoot you down?
- salawat 6y ago
  It bolsters other people with guns to shoot the first bunch down because they've clearly lost their bloody minds. Goes both ways.

drak0n1c 6y ago

Governments at a certain point aren't trying to protect us from ourselves. They're trying to protect themselves from us.

falcor84 6y ago
'People shouldn't be afraid of their government. Governments should be afraid of their people.'
- jfengel 6y ago
  Myanmar has a government that's afraid of its people. It's not working out so great. What seems to work best is when the government and the people like each other, and nobody's afraid. That doesn't mean that they have to agree, but it does mean that they disagree politely, and seek to resolve disagreements with compromises that everybody can live with. That requires a certain amount of trust and good faith. Once there's widespread fear, it's not going to end well for anybody.
  - LordDragonfang 6y ago
    I think the people of Myanmar are more afraid of the government than the government is of them. That's kind of the important part of that idiom there.

maxerickson 6y ago

It's not like a law is going to stop a malicious government from literally cutting a connection. Do you really mean to propose that network operators not be able to disconnect from people that don't pay or are disruptive to their operations? I feel like you need to be a little more clear about what responsibilities you think private entities have.

karatinversion 6y ago

No. The Myanmar military’s coup, and the killing of hundreds of protesters, were already illegal. If the US joint chiefs of staff arrested the president and congress, the CEO of T-mobile would not refuse to switch off mobile networks if half a dozen marines with loaded ARs showed up at his house with an order to do so.

lostlogin 6y ago
> the CEO of T-mobile would not refuse to switch off mobile networks if half a dozen marines with loaded ARs showed up at his house with an order to do so. If people with guns threatened me and the way out was to turn off a network, I think I’d do as they ‘asked’.
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  If I was worried about it I would build a process that didn't have a single point of failure like that.
wnevets 6y ago
Absolutely. However it still would be nice if it US Government didn't have the legal authority to do so. There is a difference between an internet kill switch controlled and required by the government ala russia and marines storming T-Mobile's HQ. Not to mention the optics matter, even to dictators.

jdavis703 6y ago

There are several sibling posts saying we don’t have to worry about the US government cutting communications. That’s just not true. A major US transit agency halted cell service to disrupt protests: https://www.aclunc.org/blog/five-years-later-barts-cell-service-shutdown-still-wakeup-call https://www.aclunc.org/blog/five-years-later-barts-cell-serv....

marshmallow_12 6y ago
but again, if it gets as bad as in Myanmar, a)laws wont help b) we will have bigger problems. Is shutting down internet a small step towards a coup, as opposed to being the fruit of one? In the case of the US, i don't think it's likely short or medium term. What about police abusing this power? That's a local government problem, not a national one, so it's different to what's going on in myanmar.
- JumpCrisscross 6y ago
  > if it gets as bad as in Myanmar, a)laws wont help b) we will have bigger problems It gets as bad as it has in Myanmar when one doesn't have those laws. If you ban cutting communications, it normalizes the expectation. Cutting communications now becomes personally and politically risky in a way it isn't if it's in the grey area. For an example, see India's slow slide into authoritarianism in this respect. Cutting communications in Kashmir was legal, but iffy. That normalized, legally and culturally, the mechanism. Now, communications are routinely cut across the country. All that said, Myanmar fell to a military coup. That's a different failure mechanism from elected leaders getting too comfortable on their thrones.
  - baybal2 6y ago
    We have a member called 2GKasmiri, would be appropriate to hear him here.
  - selimthegrim 6y ago
    They cut communications regularly across the country well before 2019

vkou 6y ago

> What's going on here in Myanmar should be a lesson to all people. Yes. The lesson is that when your country is taken over by a military coup, and guys with assault rifles come to shut down the internet, pre-existing laws and rhetoric about free speech and open access and all that other good stuff become completely irrelevant. You are looking at a wet street, and are claiming that it caused rain. If you actually want to prevent this from happening here, the step that you should worry about is the coup and the killings, not the internet getting shut down in the following week.

vsareto 6y ago

They're never going to shut it down in the US. Too many people posted incriminating stuff during Jan. 6th. It's way too useful to turn it off.

adrr 6y ago

How is that a lesson? Its coup, and the military has ignored the rule of law and seized control.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

refurb 6y ago

What good a is law when there are people with guns ready to shoot you down?

salawat 6y ago
It bolsters other people with guns to shoot the first bunch down because they've clearly lost their bloody minds. Goes both ways.