5 ms·

Schools are indeed quite safe. The younger the safer, but generally children get sick less and are vanishingly unlikely to end up in the hospital or die. There'

Schools are indeed quite safe. The younger the safer, but generally children get sick less and are vanishingly unlikely to end up in the hospital or die. There's also evidence that schools haven't been a big transmission sites for covid probably because while teacher to teacher transmission is as big a problem as anywhere teacher <-> student and student <-> student transmission isn't that likely. The other side is that closing schools has had big negative impacts on children especially poor children. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/transmission_k_12_schools.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-br... https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2772834 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle...

ska 6y ago
If I understand correctly there is some evidence this may be changing with the variants, but it's inconclusive.
Scramblejams 6y ago
I'm very skeptical that schools are quite safe. See https://twitter.com/dgurdasani1/status/1346362159446577154 https://twitter.com/dgurdasani1/status/1346362159446577154 Some key quotes: Here is a study carried out across >200 countries that showed that among all interventions studied, closing educational institutions was the 2nd most effective. Importantly, the impact on R was similar for pre-school, primary & secondary school settings. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-020-01009-0 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-020-01009-0 Another study of >131 countries showed that among different interventions studied, one of the highest changes in R (R ratio) between introducing an intervention & lifting it was for school closures: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30785-4/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3... There are more good quotes and citations in that thread, it's worth a read. Anecdotally, the amount of times I've been sick since my daughter enrolled in public school has been mind-blowing. The notion that kids are somehow impervious to contracting this, or don't bring it home to vulnerable family members, would mean this virus behaves very differently from all the other upper respiratory diseases commonly seen out there. That's certainly possible, but based on what I've observed -- for example, I'm 99% certain the coronavirus vector that got me was a child -- it just doesn't pass the smell test with me. (Edit: Moved this from downthread)
- xxxxxyyg1 6y ago
  If we're going to be super sensitive about the almost non-existent threat of children wrt sars-cov-2 why aren't we also super sensitive about destroying any semblance of normality in children's lives? Surely this damages children in their crucial developmental stages when they're deprived of social signalling, and effective teaching methods (sorry, Zoom doesn't cut it). As science would inform us - humans have millions of years of evolution searing social interaction into our biology. Cutting this out will have profound effects.
  - Scramblejams 6y ago
    If we're going to be super sensitive about the almost non-existent threat of children wrt sars-cov-2 According to the studies I linked above, closing schools during outbreaks saved many, many thousands of (mostly adult) lives. If those studies are correct, the threat is absolutely not "almost non-existent." If you have particular issues with those studies, please share them. I think it's good to remember that the following can both be simultaneously true: 1. There can be significant mental (and maybe physical!) health risks to keeping your kids home from school. 2. There can be significant physical (and maybe mental!) health risks to sending your kids to school.[0] Neither point makes the other any less valid. Every family is different, so everyone's going to weigh those two risks differently, and we need to be generous, patient, and understanding in figuring out how to accommodate each other. [0] I'm seeing more studies saying mental illness rates are ticking up in Covid survivors relative to other cohorts, so there seems to be a mental health risk that rides the coattails of risk of infection.
    - xxxxxyyg1 6y ago
      > According to the studies I linked above, closing schools during outbreaks saved many, many thousands of (mostly adult) lives. How many millions of children have had a profound impact on their lives, essentially sacrificing crucial years that determine the rest of their lives? Some people seem ok with sacrificing children to save (primarily) the elderly.
  - iujjkfjdkkdkf 6y ago

ska 6y ago

If I understand correctly there is some evidence this may be changing with the variants, but it's inconclusive.

Scramblejams 6y ago

I'm very skeptical that schools are quite safe. See https://twitter.com/dgurdasani1/status/1346362159446577154 https://twitter.com/dgurdasani1/status/1346362159446577154 Some key quotes: Here is a study carried out across >200 countries that showed that among all interventions studied, closing educational institutions was the 2nd most effective. Importantly, the impact on R was similar for pre-school, primary & secondary school settings. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-020-01009-0 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-020-01009-0 Another study of >131 countries showed that among different interventions studied, one of the highest changes in R (R ratio) between introducing an intervention & lifting it was for school closures: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30785-4/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3... There are more good quotes and citations in that thread, it's worth a read. Anecdotally, the amount of times I've been sick since my daughter enrolled in public school has been mind-blowing. The notion that kids are somehow impervious to contracting this, or don't bring it home to vulnerable family members, would mean this virus behaves very differently from all the other upper respiratory diseases commonly seen out there. That's certainly possible, but based on what I've observed -- for example, I'm 99% certain the coronavirus vector that got me was a child -- it just doesn't pass the smell test with me. (Edit: Moved this from downthread)

xxxxxyyg1 6y ago
If we're going to be super sensitive about the almost non-existent threat of children wrt sars-cov-2 why aren't we also super sensitive about destroying any semblance of normality in children's lives? Surely this damages children in their crucial developmental stages when they're deprived of social signalling, and effective teaching methods (sorry, Zoom doesn't cut it). As science would inform us - humans have millions of years of evolution searing social interaction into our biology. Cutting this out will have profound effects.
- Scramblejams 6y ago
  If we're going to be super sensitive about the almost non-existent threat of children wrt sars-cov-2 According to the studies I linked above, closing schools during outbreaks saved many, many thousands of (mostly adult) lives. If those studies are correct, the threat is absolutely not "almost non-existent." If you have particular issues with those studies, please share them. I think it's good to remember that the following can both be simultaneously true: 1. There can be significant mental (and maybe physical!) health risks to keeping your kids home from school. 2. There can be significant physical (and maybe mental!) health risks to sending your kids to school.[0] Neither point makes the other any less valid. Every family is different, so everyone's going to weigh those two risks differently, and we need to be generous, patient, and understanding in figuring out how to accommodate each other. [0] I'm seeing more studies saying mental illness rates are ticking up in Covid survivors relative to other cohorts, so there seems to be a mental health risk that rides the coattails of risk of infection.
  - xxxxxyyg1 6y ago
    > According to the studies I linked above, closing schools during outbreaks saved many, many thousands of (mostly adult) lives. How many millions of children have had a profound impact on their lives, essentially sacrificing crucial years that determine the rest of their lives? Some people seem ok with sacrificing children to save (primarily) the elderly.
- iujjkfjdkkdkf 6y ago