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Unless I'm misunderstanding, the host's DNA is not changed during this process. When I think of genetic engineering, I think of "changing the host's genome". Wh

Unless I'm misunderstanding, the host's DNA is not changed during this process. When I think of genetic engineering, I think of "changing the host's genome". What does genetic engineering mean to you?

99_00 6y ago
the deliberate modification of the characteristics of an organism by manipulating its genetic material.
- adrianmonk 6y ago
  By this definition, the mRNA vaccines aren't genetic engineering. They don't manipulate the organism's genetic material. They borrow the machinery that the organism uses (downstream) when doing stuff with its genetic material. When I borrow your kitchen to cook my own recipe, I don't alter or even look at your cookbooks.
  - 99_00 6y ago
    Isn't adding functional genetic material modifying?
    - yellowapple 6y ago
      Only in the same sense that navigating to https://news.ycombinator.com https://news.ycombinator.com modifies your web browser's code. That is: no, not at all.
      - 99_00 6y ago
        An analogy about computer code isn't a valid counter point.
        yellowapple 6y ago
        I'm trying to put it in terms this audience might better understand, since said audience doesn't seem to understand it when presented plainly (as has been done already, by various others). Though in hindsight, there's a better analogy: So when you run a program on your computer, your computer doesn't directly execute that machine code right from the disk; rather, it loads a copy of it into memory first, and then executes that copy. If something changes that running copy (for example, by loading a DLL, or by using something like Cheat Engine to tweak the process memory), the original copy on the disk is untouched. Likewise, when cells make proteins from your genetic code, they don't do so by "executing" the DNA directly. Rather, they make a copy of (a.k.a. transcribe) the DNA - this copy being "messenger" RNA or mRNA - and then that RNA gets tweaked and spliced and such before eventually making it to a ribosome to be "executed" - i.e. matched up to amino acids to make proteins. An mRNA vaccine therefore works analogously to a DLL plugin: just like how loading a plugin doesn't change a program's binary as it exists on-disk, the vaccine's mRNA doesn't modify the DNA in your cells' nuclei - it instead goes directly to the ribosomes and gets matched up with amino acids to make proteins, leaving your DNA alone. mRNA, like a running program, is short-lived; eventually it'll finish running, and then that's that. Since no actual DNA was modified, that's the end of it: the proteins that mRNA coded are all that remain. If more proteins are needed - e.g. for another round of training your immune system to attack SARS-CoV-2 spike proteins - then you'll need a second shot of mRNA, which will again go right to the ribosomes, get matched up with amino acids to make proteins, then that's that.
        99_00 6y ago
        You're not addressing the point. You are just describing protein syntheses and comparing it to a computer program. >the deliberate modification of the characteristics of an organism by manipulating its genetic material. Is mRNA genetic material? If yes, then is adding mRNA manipulating the organisms genetic material? Is a process that puts foreign mRNA into people's cells deliberate modification of an organism?
        dragonwriter 6y ago

99_00 6y ago

the deliberate modification of the characteristics of an organism by manipulating its genetic material.

adrianmonk 6y ago
By this definition, the mRNA vaccines aren't genetic engineering. They don't manipulate the organism's genetic material. They borrow the machinery that the organism uses (downstream) when doing stuff with its genetic material. When I borrow your kitchen to cook my own recipe, I don't alter or even look at your cookbooks.
- 99_00 6y ago
  Isn't adding functional genetic material modifying?
  - yellowapple 6y ago
    Only in the same sense that navigating to https://news.ycombinator.com https://news.ycombinator.com modifies your web browser's code. That is: no, not at all.
    - 99_00 6y ago
      An analogy about computer code isn't a valid counter point.
      - yellowapple 6y ago
        I'm trying to put it in terms this audience might better understand, since said audience doesn't seem to understand it when presented plainly (as has been done already, by various others). Though in hindsight, there's a better analogy: So when you run a program on your computer, your computer doesn't directly execute that machine code right from the disk; rather, it loads a copy of it into memory first, and then executes that copy. If something changes that running copy (for example, by loading a DLL, or by using something like Cheat Engine to tweak the process memory), the original copy on the disk is untouched. Likewise, when cells make proteins from your genetic code, they don't do so by "executing" the DNA directly. Rather, they make a copy of (a.k.a. transcribe) the DNA - this copy being "messenger" RNA or mRNA - and then that RNA gets tweaked and spliced and such before eventually making it to a ribosome to be "executed" - i.e. matched up to amino acids to make proteins. An mRNA vaccine therefore works analogously to a DLL plugin: just like how loading a plugin doesn't change a program's binary as it exists on-disk, the vaccine's mRNA doesn't modify the DNA in your cells' nuclei - it instead goes directly to the ribosomes and gets matched up with amino acids to make proteins, leaving your DNA alone. mRNA, like a running program, is short-lived; eventually it'll finish running, and then that's that. Since no actual DNA was modified, that's the end of it: the proteins that mRNA coded are all that remain. If more proteins are needed - e.g. for another round of training your immune system to attack SARS-CoV-2 spike proteins - then you'll need a second shot of mRNA, which will again go right to the ribosomes, get matched up with amino acids to make proteins, then that's that.
        99_00 6y ago
        You're not addressing the point. You are just describing protein syntheses and comparing it to a computer program. >the deliberate modification of the characteristics of an organism by manipulating its genetic material. Is mRNA genetic material? If yes, then is adding mRNA manipulating the organisms genetic material? Is a process that puts foreign mRNA into people's cells deliberate modification of an organism?
        dragonwriter 6y ago