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Has anyone looked at it from the angle; does bitcoin consume more or less energy than the current banking industry?

paulgb 6y ago
Per transaction it certainly does, the proof of which being that if you were to scale the energy per transaction up to the volume of transactions in the broader economy, you end up with more energy than humans produce. I'm not sure a comparison to banking is appropriate though; much of what banks do (loans, etc.) is not obsoleted by cryptocurrencies.
- Maxburn 6y ago
  When I mentioned my concern with the energy bitcoin uses someones response was that it is less than the banking industry. It didn't pass the sniff test but I honestly didn't know once you included all the overhead real banks have. I thought it was a interesting perspective.
- rawtxapp 6y ago
  You're completely ignoring layer 2 and other off-chain places where you can exchange Bitcoin. For example, while a transaction on-chain might move only 1 Bitcoin, it's very much possible that that Bitcoin has changed hands millions of times in another layer.
  - paulgb 6y ago
    I'm ignoring Layer 2 because I think it's vaporware. Every time I look for volume numbers they are negligible compared to BTC as a whole.
    - Melting_Harps 6y ago
      It's a UX/UI issue, you as a (presumed) tech worker should know better and consider it a working beta, not vaporware. It's there, it works, but most people have not been onboarded.
      - rspeele 6y ago
        So it's kind of like the Year of Linux On The Desktop?
        Melting_Harps 6y ago
        > So it's kind of like the Year of Linux On The Desktop? Sure you can look at it that way, or see how Linux dominated the Mobile and Sever space which then bypassed the need for desktops entirely, so too has Bitcoin done to finance and you can now easily plug into the Global economy with nothing more than a 10 year old smart phone. Honestly, you guys make my arguments for me so well that I think you have to be trolling (as closet Bitcoin holders) being bored at your otherwise mundane jobs. Buy the way, been there done that, it loses it's novelty fast. And you're better off learning a new skill.
  - rspeele 6y ago
    If "another layer" means in centralized exchanges by day traders, that's probably true. If "another layer" means lightning network, I doubt it.
    - rawtxapp 6y ago
      Centralized exchanges, lightning network, other blockchains (ethereum), other layer 2s on ethereum, etc. A settlement on the blockchain most likely corresponds to many other transactions elsewhere.
  - Hjfrf 6y ago
    If you're just going to use off-chain centralised exchanges with a relational database backend anyway, what's the point of bitcoin? You could do the same with dollars.
minikites 6y ago
I have to imagine traditional banking would use less energy than Bitcoin given the computational requirements of each. The current banking system also impacts a lot of other industries that Bitcoin does not, so Bitcoin is more of an optional "luxury" compared to the traditional banking system.
- Maxburn 6y ago
  The person that asked me that question was proposing that the banking industry with all the overhead of Brick&Mortar banks was far more wasteful than bitcoin. Doesn't seem bitcoin makes B&M go away though.

Per transaction it certainly does, the proof of which being that if you were to scale the energy per transaction up to the volume of transactions in the broader economy, you end up with more energy than humans produce. I'm not sure a comparison to banking is appropriate though; much of what banks do (loans, etc.) is not obsoleted by cryptocurrencies.

Maxburn 6y ago
When I mentioned my concern with the energy bitcoin uses someones response was that it is less than the banking industry. It didn't pass the sniff test but I honestly didn't know once you included all the overhead real banks have. I thought it was a interesting perspective.
rawtxapp 6y ago
You're completely ignoring layer 2 and other off-chain places where you can exchange Bitcoin. For example, while a transaction on-chain might move only 1 Bitcoin, it's very much possible that that Bitcoin has changed hands millions of times in another layer.
- paulgb 6y ago
  I'm ignoring Layer 2 because I think it's vaporware. Every time I look for volume numbers they are negligible compared to BTC as a whole.
  - Melting_Harps 6y ago
    It's a UX/UI issue, you as a (presumed) tech worker should know better and consider it a working beta, not vaporware. It's there, it works, but most people have not been onboarded.
    - rspeele 6y ago
      So it's kind of like the Year of Linux On The Desktop?
      - Melting_Harps 6y ago
        > So it's kind of like the Year of Linux On The Desktop? Sure you can look at it that way, or see how Linux dominated the Mobile and Sever space which then bypassed the need for desktops entirely, so too has Bitcoin done to finance and you can now easily plug into the Global economy with nothing more than a 10 year old smart phone. Honestly, you guys make my arguments for me so well that I think you have to be trolling (as closet Bitcoin holders) being bored at your otherwise mundane jobs. Buy the way, been there done that, it loses it's novelty fast. And you're better off learning a new skill.
- rspeele 6y ago
  If "another layer" means in centralized exchanges by day traders, that's probably true. If "another layer" means lightning network, I doubt it.
  - rawtxapp 6y ago
    Centralized exchanges, lightning network, other blockchains (ethereum), other layer 2s on ethereum, etc. A settlement on the blockchain most likely corresponds to many other transactions elsewhere.
- Hjfrf 6y ago
  If you're just going to use off-chain centralised exchanges with a relational database backend anyway, what's the point of bitcoin? You could do the same with dollars.

minikites 6y ago

I have to imagine traditional banking would use less energy than Bitcoin given the computational requirements of each. The current banking system also impacts a lot of other industries that Bitcoin does not, so Bitcoin is more of an optional "luxury" compared to the traditional banking system.

Maxburn 6y ago
The person that asked me that question was proposing that the banking industry with all the overhead of Brick&Mortar banks was far more wasteful than bitcoin. Doesn't seem bitcoin makes B&M go away though.