5 ms·

I'm not familiar with Chinese or Thai law to know what is legal or not, but I would assume there is some kind of fraud. Especially for clicking on advertisemen

I'm not familiar with Chinese or Thai law to know what is legal or not, but I would assume there is some kind of fraud. Especially for clicking on advertisements.

Nextgrid 6y ago
Is it fraudulent to click on advertisements without having an intention to buy the product?
- dec0dedab0de 6y ago
  Is it fraudulent to click on advertisements without having an intention to buy the product? I dont know, but I doubt intention to buy is the deciding factor. I would think that it becomes illegal when you are misrepresenting traffic to an advertiser. Especially if its a pay per click contract, and the group doing the clicking is acting on behalf of the company getting paid.
  - spookthesunset 6y ago
    Misrepresenting traffic to an advertiser is intention. Those clicks were intended to defraud the advertiser. Normal clicks from average joe are not done intending to defraud somebody. It might be pedantic to point that out... but intent matters.
    - dec0dedab0de 6y ago
      Right, but I was being even more pedantic when I quoted "intention to buy." That is to say, if I see an ad for something that I want to know more about, but I don't want or need, or cant afford, I have an honest reason to click on the ad even though I don't have an "intention to buy."
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - wincy 6y ago
      I mean, AdNauseam [0] certainly has that intention, as it clicks every single ad in an attempt to waste advertisers time and money. [0] https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/adnauseam/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/adnauseam/
  - cies 6y ago
    I dont know if intent by itself (without an otherwise punishable act) can be a crime. That would be a thought crime, wouldn't it? GP says "Click without intend to buy" -- Wow, that sounds like mis clicks could be a CRIME! I cannot be too bothered with people gaming the sleazy business that advertising is.
    - dec0dedab0de 6y ago
      I dont know if intent by itself (without an otherwise punishable act) can be a crime. That would be a thought crime, wouldn't it? Intent can surely make something a crime, that wouldn't be punishable otherwise. Giving someone with a peanut allergy something with peanuts in it is not a crime, unless you knew they had the allergy and intended to hurt them. In some states it's illegal to intentionally expose someone to HIV, but it wouldnt be illegal to expose them if you didn't know you had it. If you slip and fall at a store you can likely sue for damages, but it would be a crime if you intended to do it. I cannot be too bothered with people gaming the sleazy business that advertising is. Yeah, I don't feel bad for any of the players involved in that world.
    - michaelbuckbee 6y ago
      I accidently click an ad -> not a crime. I hire you to browse around my site clicking on ads to generate revenue for me -> crime.
      - cies 6y ago
        That why I said that "click without intend to buy" can prolly not be a crime, where putting up ads with intent to have them clicked by yourself (or someone you pay for) IS most likely against the contract that you have with the ad network. If the ad networks care is another story. They make money either way on the short term :)
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- EMM_386 6y ago
  This would depend on the country I'd imagine, but in the United States the answer seems to be "yes". That would be when the company doing the clicking is profiting off of it, which in this case they are. https://www.cheq.ai/click-fraud-illegal https://www.cheq.ai/click-fraud-illegal
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  Why do you think the people working in these click farms are clicking on the adverts? Is it to defraud someone out of a marketing fee by pretending that your adverts are creating more engagement than they actually are? Then that's fraud, isn't it? The law looks at how a reasonable person would interpret what you are doing and what your intent is. It doesn't work on a 'clicking adverts without intending to buy is illegal' basis. So many people here misunderstand that.
  - tomc1985 6y ago
    Whose law? The US? Thailand? China? In western common law practice, sure. But elsewhere?
    - chrisseaton 6y ago
      Yes I think an equivalent 'fraud' law, sometimes called something like obtaining a valuable security or pecuniary advantage by by deception or something like that, is a basic part of almost all legal system everywhere.
- mc32 6y ago
  Isn’t it like being a radio station with 5,000 listeners but claiming to have 50,000 listeners and charging advertisers on the basis of having 50,000 listeners?
  - T-hawk 6y ago
    Not quite, because in this case the 50,000 listeners do exist. It's just that 45,000 of them are shills paid by the radio station. But if the advertising contracts didn't exclude for that, then there's no grounds to complain.
- peterkelly 6y ago
  At this scale, yes. If you pay me (say) $30,000 for advertising based on a commitment from me that your ads will be shown to enough people until you reach a certain number of click-throughs, but actually all of those are just my staff sitting there repeatedly clicking on them all day without ever buying your product, i'm pretty sure you'd be unhappy about that. Whether it's actually illegal or not is another matter, and depends on circumstances and jurisdiction.
- happytoexplain 6y ago
  "Intention to buy" isn't specific enough. If it can be defined as obtaining money by deception, which seems like a pretty applicable description, the case for fraud seems strong.
- Rule35 6y ago
  No. Without an existing obligation, not at all. But if you're the same party displaying the ads, or working for them, then yes - you're intentionally defrauding the ad company.
- junon 6y ago
  I would imagine it's something like this: 1. You create an AdWords account or something where you can be paid to put ads on your site. 2. You have tons of employees with different devices, probably on a range of VPNs or tor circuits. 3. They click ads on your site over and over and over again. Just a hunch. I know this sort of thing is strictly forbidden in Google's terms and can certainly be considered fraudulent depending on who's asking.
- ars 6y ago
  It's not fraudulent for the clicker. It's fraudulent for the website host who hired the clicker. The host presumably has some kind of contract they agreed to in exchange for getting ads and getting paid.
- sandworm101 6y ago
  Lock me up. I have never bought via a clicked ad. Every click was accidental. I would eat a hotdog from a shady vendor in a back alley before buying anything from a banner ad.

I'm not familiar with Chinese or Thai law to know what is legal or not, but I would assume there is some kind of fraud. Especially for clicking on advertisements.

Nextgrid 6y ago

Is it fraudulent to click on advertisements without having an intention to buy the product?

dec0dedab0de 6y ago
Is it fraudulent to click on advertisements without having an intention to buy the product? I dont know, but I doubt intention to buy is the deciding factor. I would think that it becomes illegal when you are misrepresenting traffic to an advertiser. Especially if its a pay per click contract, and the group doing the clicking is acting on behalf of the company getting paid.
- spookthesunset 6y ago
  Misrepresenting traffic to an advertiser is intention. Those clicks were intended to defraud the advertiser. Normal clicks from average joe are not done intending to defraud somebody. It might be pedantic to point that out... but intent matters.
  - dec0dedab0de 6y ago
    Right, but I was being even more pedantic when I quoted "intention to buy." That is to say, if I see an ad for something that I want to know more about, but I don't want or need, or cant afford, I have an honest reason to click on the ad even though I don't have an "intention to buy."
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - wincy 6y ago
    I mean, AdNauseam [0] certainly has that intention, as it clicks every single ad in an attempt to waste advertisers time and money. [0] https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/adnauseam/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/adnauseam/
- cies 6y ago
  I dont know if intent by itself (without an otherwise punishable act) can be a crime. That would be a thought crime, wouldn't it? GP says "Click without intend to buy" -- Wow, that sounds like mis clicks could be a CRIME! I cannot be too bothered with people gaming the sleazy business that advertising is.
  - dec0dedab0de 6y ago
    I dont know if intent by itself (without an otherwise punishable act) can be a crime. That would be a thought crime, wouldn't it? Intent can surely make something a crime, that wouldn't be punishable otherwise. Giving someone with a peanut allergy something with peanuts in it is not a crime, unless you knew they had the allergy and intended to hurt them. In some states it's illegal to intentionally expose someone to HIV, but it wouldnt be illegal to expose them if you didn't know you had it. If you slip and fall at a store you can likely sue for damages, but it would be a crime if you intended to do it. I cannot be too bothered with people gaming the sleazy business that advertising is. Yeah, I don't feel bad for any of the players involved in that world.
  - michaelbuckbee 6y ago
    I accidently click an ad -> not a crime. I hire you to browse around my site clicking on ads to generate revenue for me -> crime.
    - cies 6y ago
      That why I said that "click without intend to buy" can prolly not be a crime, where putting up ads with intent to have them clicked by yourself (or someone you pay for) IS most likely against the contract that you have with the ad network. If the ad networks care is another story. They make money either way on the short term :)
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
EMM_386 6y ago
This would depend on the country I'd imagine, but in the United States the answer seems to be "yes". That would be when the company doing the clicking is profiting off of it, which in this case they are. https://www.cheq.ai/click-fraud-illegal https://www.cheq.ai/click-fraud-illegal
chrisseaton 6y ago
Why do you think the people working in these click farms are clicking on the adverts? Is it to defraud someone out of a marketing fee by pretending that your adverts are creating more engagement than they actually are? Then that's fraud, isn't it? The law looks at how a reasonable person would interpret what you are doing and what your intent is. It doesn't work on a 'clicking adverts without intending to buy is illegal' basis. So many people here misunderstand that.
- tomc1985 6y ago
  Whose law? The US? Thailand? China? In western common law practice, sure. But elsewhere?
  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    Yes I think an equivalent 'fraud' law, sometimes called something like obtaining a valuable security or pecuniary advantage by by deception or something like that, is a basic part of almost all legal system everywhere.
mc32 6y ago
Isn’t it like being a radio station with 5,000 listeners but claiming to have 50,000 listeners and charging advertisers on the basis of having 50,000 listeners?
- T-hawk 6y ago
  Not quite, because in this case the 50,000 listeners do exist. It's just that 45,000 of them are shills paid by the radio station. But if the advertising contracts didn't exclude for that, then there's no grounds to complain.
peterkelly 6y ago
At this scale, yes. If you pay me (say) $30,000 for advertising based on a commitment from me that your ads will be shown to enough people until you reach a certain number of click-throughs, but actually all of those are just my staff sitting there repeatedly clicking on them all day without ever buying your product, i'm pretty sure you'd be unhappy about that. Whether it's actually illegal or not is another matter, and depends on circumstances and jurisdiction.
happytoexplain 6y ago
"Intention to buy" isn't specific enough. If it can be defined as obtaining money by deception, which seems like a pretty applicable description, the case for fraud seems strong.
Rule35 6y ago
No. Without an existing obligation, not at all. But if you're the same party displaying the ads, or working for them, then yes - you're intentionally defrauding the ad company.
junon 6y ago
I would imagine it's something like this: 1. You create an AdWords account or something where you can be paid to put ads on your site. 2. You have tons of employees with different devices, probably on a range of VPNs or tor circuits. 3. They click ads on your site over and over and over again. Just a hunch. I know this sort of thing is strictly forbidden in Google's terms and can certainly be considered fraudulent depending on who's asking.
ars 6y ago
It's not fraudulent for the clicker. It's fraudulent for the website host who hired the clicker. The host presumably has some kind of contract they agreed to in exchange for getting ads and getting paid.
sandworm101 6y ago
Lock me up. I have never bought via a clicked ad. Every click was accidental. I would eat a hotdog from a shady vendor in a back alley before buying anything from a banner ad.