3 ms·

Or maybe finally learn mechanics 101 - what the conservation of momentum is. The kind of stuff we expect to understand from smart 16 year olds. This is the phy

Or maybe finally learn mechanics 101 - what the conservation of momentum is. The kind of stuff we expect to understand from smart 16 year olds. This is the physics equivalent of someone writing a brute-force recursive SAT solver and wondering why it takes so long. Perhaps we don't measure time correctly? What if mirrors are an illusion? We mustn't stop advancing the field!

shoefindortz 6y ago
This argument reminds me of the historical arguments made against heliocentrism vs geocentrism. Just because we have widespread belief of one thing to be true does not mean we should blindly accept it and not test things that appear to oppose it. In my opinion, the tests that have happened with the EmDrive are exactly what _should_ happen to make sure that our knowledge is strong and that we do keep advancing the field.
- anthony_r 6y ago
  This is like with being a teenager - you simply don't realize just how dumb you sound. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton%27s_laws_of_motion#Importance_and_range_of_validity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton%27s_laws_of_motion#Impo... It is fascinating how such "fake news" grabs people attention, for extended periods of time. Fake news can last forever :)
tlibert 6y ago
Yeah, those morons at NASA'S Advanced Propulsion Physics Laboratory sure have no idea what is a good use of their time.
- selimthegrim 6y ago
  This fellow (Eagleworks guy) was told in no uncertain terms by his PhD thesis committee at Rice that this was a bad idea and forced to rewrite his thesis. He clearly doesn’t know when to take a hint.
- anthony_r 6y ago
  Yes there are commonly clever people that know how to play organizational ladders with minimum amount of work in every sufficiently large organization. Also a fair amount of "morons".
  - tlibert 6y ago
    Arthur C Clark has addressed this general point in his first law: “ When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.”
c1ccccc1 6y ago
"Velocities add" is also mechanics 101, and turned out to be incorrect at sufficiently large speeds. I think we have to go to Noether's theorem to show why we should be so sure the EM drive doesn't work: EM drive proponents must either tell us where the momentum goes, or explain why space isn't symmetric under translation. (Actually, fun side note, in a gravitational field, space isn't symmetric under translation. IIRC, this was the original problem that caused Noether to prove her famous theorem. She found that while there was still a conserved quantity of a sort due to "translations" in space and time, it wasn't just the energy-momentum tensor, but also depended on the gravitational field. In any case, the EM drive is supposed to work in flat space, so that shouldn't become an issue.)
plutonorm 6y ago
I have MSc in mathematics, I can follow the idea of conservation of momentum. I just know a little more than you and understand that things are not so simple.

shoefindortz 6y ago

This argument reminds me of the historical arguments made against heliocentrism vs geocentrism. Just because we have widespread belief of one thing to be true does not mean we should blindly accept it and not test things that appear to oppose it. In my opinion, the tests that have happened with the EmDrive are exactly what _should_ happen to make sure that our knowledge is strong and that we do keep advancing the field.

anthony_r 6y ago
This is like with being a teenager - you simply don't realize just how dumb you sound. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton%27s_laws_of_motion#Importance_and_range_of_validity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton%27s_laws_of_motion#Impo... It is fascinating how such "fake news" grabs people attention, for extended periods of time. Fake news can last forever :)

tlibert 6y ago

Yeah, those morons at NASA'S Advanced Propulsion Physics Laboratory sure have no idea what is a good use of their time.

selimthegrim 6y ago
This fellow (Eagleworks guy) was told in no uncertain terms by his PhD thesis committee at Rice that this was a bad idea and forced to rewrite his thesis. He clearly doesn’t know when to take a hint.
anthony_r 6y ago
Yes there are commonly clever people that know how to play organizational ladders with minimum amount of work in every sufficiently large organization. Also a fair amount of "morons".
- tlibert 6y ago
  Arthur C Clark has addressed this general point in his first law: “ When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.”

c1ccccc1 6y ago

"Velocities add" is also mechanics 101, and turned out to be incorrect at sufficiently large speeds. I think we have to go to Noether's theorem to show why we should be so sure the EM drive doesn't work: EM drive proponents must either tell us where the momentum goes, or explain why space isn't symmetric under translation. (Actually, fun side note, in a gravitational field, space isn't symmetric under translation. IIRC, this was the original problem that caused Noether to prove her famous theorem. She found that while there was still a conserved quantity of a sort due to "translations" in space and time, it wasn't just the energy-momentum tensor, but also depended on the gravitational field. In any case, the EM drive is supposed to work in flat space, so that shouldn't become an issue.)

plutonorm 6y ago

I have MSc in mathematics, I can follow the idea of conservation of momentum. I just know a little more than you and understand that things are not so simple.