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I’ve heard this a few times but never really saw any of that creative culture working close to a few Perl folks, besides a few funny package names. More a cultu

by jiofih 6y ago

I’ve heard this a few times but never really saw any of that creative culture working close to a few Perl folks, besides a few funny package names. More a culture of roughness, “hacker cred” and a defensive, short-sighted, we-know-better attitude that left people stranded and is totally not welcoming to creative types. I learned very little during this time. What you describe is what the Ruby community was in the early 2000s.

chrisseaton 6y ago
My favourite example is the 'bless' function. It attaches a class to an object, if people didn't know. I can't imagine such a name getting approved in any other language. I think any other community would say 'hang on shall we give it a descriptive name that anyone can understand without context, rather than doing this whole faux-religion schtick that will need to be explained to everyone?'
- kqr 6y ago
  Programming is filled with weird terminology that only means something because we've gotten used to it. String? Method? Abstract method? Stack? Sure, there's a weak link between pre-existing meanings and the programming one, but so is there with bless.
  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    > String? Method? Abstract method? Stack? These aren't per-language terms that people have to learn just to use Perl, though are they? 'bless' is. A new term for something that could have been described so simply as 'set-class' or 'give-class' or anything else using plain language.
    - kqr 6y ago
      Well, they do mean slightly different things in different languages. But I suspect "set-class" or "give-class" would be a bit cumbersome to trip over every time it happens. A relatively core concept should have a relatively short name (in the Perl philosophy of working like a natural language) so we'd still probably have to find something around 5 characters or fewer.
- jiofih 6y ago
  See, that’s not even that funny. Especially followed by the lesson on how it makes total sense to attach a class to an object after its creation and how every other language is doing it wrong. And then the 47 ways blessed objects can trip you up, but they are all obvious because you should know the inner workings of the compiler and runtime or you’re not a real developer!
- WesolyKubeczek 6y ago
  > I can't imagine such a name getting approved in any other language. Now look at what bless(8) does on macOS. Not a programming language, but the disconnect between what it says on the tin and what it actually does is quite apparent.

by jiofih 6y ago

chrisseaton 6y ago

My favourite example is the 'bless' function. It attaches a class to an object, if people didn't know. I can't imagine such a name getting approved in any other language. I think any other community would say 'hang on shall we give it a descriptive name that anyone can understand without context, rather than doing this whole faux-religion schtick that will need to be explained to everyone?'

kqr 6y ago
Programming is filled with weird terminology that only means something because we've gotten used to it. String? Method? Abstract method? Stack? Sure, there's a weak link between pre-existing meanings and the programming one, but so is there with bless.
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  > String? Method? Abstract method? Stack? These aren't per-language terms that people have to learn just to use Perl, though are they? 'bless' is. A new term for something that could have been described so simply as 'set-class' or 'give-class' or anything else using plain language.
  - kqr 6y ago
    Well, they do mean slightly different things in different languages. But I suspect "set-class" or "give-class" would be a bit cumbersome to trip over every time it happens. A relatively core concept should have a relatively short name (in the Perl philosophy of working like a natural language) so we'd still probably have to find something around 5 characters or fewer.
jiofih 6y ago
See, that’s not even that funny. Especially followed by the lesson on how it makes total sense to attach a class to an object after its creation and how every other language is doing it wrong. And then the 47 ways blessed objects can trip you up, but they are all obvious because you should know the inner workings of the compiler and runtime or you’re not a real developer!
WesolyKubeczek 6y ago
> I can't imagine such a name getting approved in any other language. Now look at what bless(8) does on macOS. Not a programming language, but the disconnect between what it says on the tin and what it actually does is quite apparent.