3 ms·

Just a question: if all they were doing was manipulating URLs (and I know they've moved beyond that) would they be doing anything illegal?

tomp 15y ago
Yes. If I leave the door to my house unlocked, it doesn't mean that it is ok for you to come in without my permission.
- MatthewPhillips 15y ago
  Can I look in the windows?
  - Deestan 15y ago
    Passer-by catching a glimpse of my big TV through my street-facing uncovered window? Sure. Standing outside and watching my TV for 10 minutes? Please leave before I call the police. Creepy guy with zoom-lensed camera in a van trying to peek through my bathroom curtains? I have already called the police. While it isn't intuitive to us programmers and hacker types, when it comes to law and courts, intent matters more than action.
  - seabee 15y ago
    I think a reasonable comparison to the Citibank security flaw is leaving bank statements on a table in front of the window.
- Deestan 15y ago
  Morally, it's also not just how you break in, but what you do afterwards. I.e. if you prevent more harm than you do. If you enter the unlocked door and write "HI YOU FORGOT TO LOCK YOUR DOOR" with lipstick on the bathroom window, you're alerting the owner to a bad security practice by giving them a good scare. It is A Good Thing, because you likely prevented them losing their stuff. If you enter the unlocked door and start smashing and stealing stuff, you are technically still alerting the owner to a bad security pracice, but it is now A Bad Thing. By "being" the worst case, you only guaranteed something that was only likely to happen.
  - jules 15y ago
    What would a judge say?
  - tomp 15y ago
    Morally, I agree completely. But I'm afraid that the legal system may not.
  - tdignan 15y ago
    Morally? Isn't privacy important to you? Leaving the moral judgement up to what the intruder does with the data he finds seems a bit delayed to me. He is immoral from the get-go, by trespassing in the personal property of others. It does not matter if I forget to lock my door. People often do. It does not make it OK to open my door. You probably have this opinion because you think it's the cool way to think, that these 'hackers' have a great function in society, but lets shift the analogy: do you think your government should be able to do the same? If there was a story about the US government doing this stuff, HN would go insane with tirades about how the government is out to get us. But no, not if it's lulzsec, not if it's some cracker kid. It's the romantic fantasy of the teenage computer hacker, rebelling against the world and saving the day... I mean posting your nudes on facebook. Everyone here emphasizes with it so much that they're blind to the reality that it's just wrong to invade the privacy of others, under any circumstance. The only exception I could think of would be to invade the privacy of an oppressive government.

tomp 15y ago

Yes. If I leave the door to my house unlocked, it doesn't mean that it is ok for you to come in without my permission.

MatthewPhillips 15y ago
Can I look in the windows?
- Deestan 15y ago
  Passer-by catching a glimpse of my big TV through my street-facing uncovered window? Sure. Standing outside and watching my TV for 10 minutes? Please leave before I call the police. Creepy guy with zoom-lensed camera in a van trying to peek through my bathroom curtains? I have already called the police. While it isn't intuitive to us programmers and hacker types, when it comes to law and courts, intent matters more than action.
- seabee 15y ago
  I think a reasonable comparison to the Citibank security flaw is leaving bank statements on a table in front of the window.
Deestan 15y ago
Morally, it's also not just how you break in, but what you do afterwards. I.e. if you prevent more harm than you do. If you enter the unlocked door and write "HI YOU FORGOT TO LOCK YOUR DOOR" with lipstick on the bathroom window, you're alerting the owner to a bad security practice by giving them a good scare. It is A Good Thing, because you likely prevented them losing their stuff. If you enter the unlocked door and start smashing and stealing stuff, you are technically still alerting the owner to a bad security pracice, but it is now A Bad Thing. By "being" the worst case, you only guaranteed something that was only likely to happen.
- jules 15y ago
  What would a judge say?
- tomp 15y ago
  Morally, I agree completely. But I'm afraid that the legal system may not.
- tdignan 15y ago
  Morally? Isn't privacy important to you? Leaving the moral judgement up to what the intruder does with the data he finds seems a bit delayed to me. He is immoral from the get-go, by trespassing in the personal property of others. It does not matter if I forget to lock my door. People often do. It does not make it OK to open my door. You probably have this opinion because you think it's the cool way to think, that these 'hackers' have a great function in society, but lets shift the analogy: do you think your government should be able to do the same? If there was a story about the US government doing this stuff, HN would go insane with tirades about how the government is out to get us. But no, not if it's lulzsec, not if it's some cracker kid. It's the romantic fantasy of the teenage computer hacker, rebelling against the world and saving the day... I mean posting your nudes on facebook. Everyone here emphasizes with it so much that they're blind to the reality that it's just wrong to invade the privacy of others, under any circumstance. The only exception I could think of would be to invade the privacy of an oppressive government.