4 ms·

Additionally mobile homes are not actually all that mobile after 20years. Relatedly they tend to lose value over time as opposed to permanent buildings.

lotsofpulp 6y ago
Permanent buildings also lose value over time, and you have to spend money to repair various portions of it at some point.
- kube-system 6y ago
  Permanent buildings typically only lose value if not maintained. The issue with many mobile homes is that they’re often designed in a way that is not easily maintainable.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    Newer buildings come with updated building codes and benefit from technological advances. Unless there is reason to believe the newer building was built with subpar quality materials or workmanship compared to an older building, the older building will be worth less. https://www.trulia.com/research/new-or-existing-home/ https://www.trulia.com/research/new-or-existing-home/ > We found that that new homes (those built in 2013 or 2014) are typically priced 20% higher than older homes with similar attributes (e.g., square footage, bedrooms, bathrooms, etc.) and in the same zip code. Another example is the higher tier hotel brands won’t sell you their branding to convert older buildings, you have to build new (unless you have a very desirable location, but that’s beside the point). Also, the IRS lets you depreciate buildings, but not land: https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-regs/depreciation_faqs_v2.pdf https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-regs/depreciation_faqs_v2.pdf I do not think the IRS would let people do that if they thought buildings maintained their value.
    - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
      >Newer buildings come with updated building codes and benefit from technological advances Lol. The "updated code and technical advances" are part of what keeps the value of existing structures from losing value. Between ever increasing setback rules and asinine code changes that preclude features people actually want (like electrical outlets that are easy to use) and waste ever increasing space (look at the code for stairways and doorway sizes over the years). For everyone getting suckered into a modern spec home there's someone else buying something because you can't build whatever that something is anymore. This is even more true with commercial operations where you can buy a facility but you couldn't get a new facility through the permitting process.
      - lotsofpulp 6y ago
        > Lol. The "updated code and technical advances" are part of what keeps the value of existing structures from losing value. That is not evidenced by transaction data. There’s a few, mostly urban areas where older builds are valued due to not having to conform to modern codes, but certainly not representative of all existing structures versus new. The easiest evidence I can offer is the IRS letting you deduct depreciation for buildings. Surely they would only do this if existing structures did lose value.
        michaelmrose 6y ago
        Tax cuts are gifts for the wealthy. Starting with the premise that they are logical is extremely dubious. Older buildings may be deemed worth less on average partially because not all are well maintained and many may trivially hide expensive problems due in part to defects in workmanship and in part due to defective or absent maintenance. People will pay a premium not to deal with anyone else's problems or even a chance of same.
        kube-system 6y ago
        The IRS sometimes lets you depreciate that portion of a rental property which is the building itself or improvements, sure... but if we’re talking about homes - almost all of those buildings are physically attached and sold with land which is a component of those transactions. In practice, people continually put money into permanent homes to update it, because their property as a whole is widely seen as an investment. It’s a package deal. Mobile homes have none of this. They are not attached to land. The transactions in which they are transferred are not connected to land. They’re usually titled, and often sit on rented land.
    - kube-system 6y ago
      Maintenance, modifications, and repairs done to old homes are also done to updated building codes. Trulia is partially measuring the fact that the set of homes that are 2 years old inherently contain ~zero homes that have fallen into disrepair. Two houses 20 years apart in manufacture date that are similar in overall quality, rather than superficial MLS data, will not have a significant price differential. Mobile homes are very different in this regard. A 40 year old traditional home may still have a lot of value, partially because they are sold with the land. It is not uncommon for mobile homes to depreciate like a car, or worse. Perfectly livable but older mobile homes can sell for 4 or even 3 digit prices.
      - lotsofpulp 6y ago
        Depends which 20 years we are talking about. Before and after lead paint/pipe/asbestos, as well as before/after some of the newer insulation and plumbing. Even in recent decades, there have been some significant advances in insulation quality, electrical standards, cat 6 wiring, heat pumps, etc. Of course, mobile homes will depreciate much quicker than non mobile, but wear and tear and technological advances happen to old buildings nonetheless.
        kube-system 6y ago
        In the US, non-obvious environmental or code concerns are discovered during home inspections which are typically performed after a home is already under contract. I found a couple similar issues with my current home after I made an offer on it; they were fixed at the owners expense and didn’t affect the selling price. Obvious deficiencies, like old mechanicals, are what I’m referring to by a home being “maintained”. Mobile homes, on the other hand, are often exempt from many building codes and are notorious for their use of proprietary or non-standard parts. They’re throwaway construction.

lotsofpulp 6y ago

Permanent buildings also lose value over time, and you have to spend money to repair various portions of it at some point.

kube-system 6y ago
Permanent buildings typically only lose value if not maintained. The issue with many mobile homes is that they’re often designed in a way that is not easily maintainable.
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  Newer buildings come with updated building codes and benefit from technological advances. Unless there is reason to believe the newer building was built with subpar quality materials or workmanship compared to an older building, the older building will be worth less. https://www.trulia.com/research/new-or-existing-home/ https://www.trulia.com/research/new-or-existing-home/ > We found that that new homes (those built in 2013 or 2014) are typically priced 20% higher than older homes with similar attributes (e.g., square footage, bedrooms, bathrooms, etc.) and in the same zip code. Another example is the higher tier hotel brands won’t sell you their branding to convert older buildings, you have to build new (unless you have a very desirable location, but that’s beside the point). Also, the IRS lets you depreciate buildings, but not land: https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-regs/depreciation_faqs_v2.pdf https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-regs/depreciation_faqs_v2.pdf I do not think the IRS would let people do that if they thought buildings maintained their value.
  - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
    >Newer buildings come with updated building codes and benefit from technological advances Lol. The "updated code and technical advances" are part of what keeps the value of existing structures from losing value. Between ever increasing setback rules and asinine code changes that preclude features people actually want (like electrical outlets that are easy to use) and waste ever increasing space (look at the code for stairways and doorway sizes over the years). For everyone getting suckered into a modern spec home there's someone else buying something because you can't build whatever that something is anymore. This is even more true with commercial operations where you can buy a facility but you couldn't get a new facility through the permitting process.
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      > Lol. The "updated code and technical advances" are part of what keeps the value of existing structures from losing value. That is not evidenced by transaction data. There’s a few, mostly urban areas where older builds are valued due to not having to conform to modern codes, but certainly not representative of all existing structures versus new. The easiest evidence I can offer is the IRS letting you deduct depreciation for buildings. Surely they would only do this if existing structures did lose value.
      - michaelmrose 6y ago
        Tax cuts are gifts for the wealthy. Starting with the premise that they are logical is extremely dubious. Older buildings may be deemed worth less on average partially because not all are well maintained and many may trivially hide expensive problems due in part to defects in workmanship and in part due to defective or absent maintenance. People will pay a premium not to deal with anyone else's problems or even a chance of same.
      - kube-system 6y ago
        The IRS sometimes lets you depreciate that portion of a rental property which is the building itself or improvements, sure... but if we’re talking about homes - almost all of those buildings are physically attached and sold with land which is a component of those transactions. In practice, people continually put money into permanent homes to update it, because their property as a whole is widely seen as an investment. It’s a package deal. Mobile homes have none of this. They are not attached to land. The transactions in which they are transferred are not connected to land. They’re usually titled, and often sit on rented land.
  - kube-system 6y ago
    Maintenance, modifications, and repairs done to old homes are also done to updated building codes. Trulia is partially measuring the fact that the set of homes that are 2 years old inherently contain ~zero homes that have fallen into disrepair. Two houses 20 years apart in manufacture date that are similar in overall quality, rather than superficial MLS data, will not have a significant price differential. Mobile homes are very different in this regard. A 40 year old traditional home may still have a lot of value, partially because they are sold with the land. It is not uncommon for mobile homes to depreciate like a car, or worse. Perfectly livable but older mobile homes can sell for 4 or even 3 digit prices.
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      Depends which 20 years we are talking about. Before and after lead paint/pipe/asbestos, as well as before/after some of the newer insulation and plumbing. Even in recent decades, there have been some significant advances in insulation quality, electrical standards, cat 6 wiring, heat pumps, etc. Of course, mobile homes will depreciate much quicker than non mobile, but wear and tear and technological advances happen to old buildings nonetheless.
      - kube-system 6y ago
        In the US, non-obvious environmental or code concerns are discovered during home inspections which are typically performed after a home is already under contract. I found a couple similar issues with my current home after I made an offer on it; they were fixed at the owners expense and didn’t affect the selling price. Obvious deficiencies, like old mechanicals, are what I’m referring to by a home being “maintained”. Mobile homes, on the other hand, are often exempt from many building codes and are notorious for their use of proprietary or non-standard parts. They’re throwaway construction.