5 ms·

Yeah, I’m sure their political system’s success / failure wasn’t impacted at all by US intervention. Oh, HackerNews. I love you.

gadders 6y ago
Yes, because non-blockaded communist countries have been such glowing successes.
- SerLava 6y ago
  I mean, even the ones that were not just blockaded, but genocidally invaded, still turned from really bad feudal peasant states into modern industrial nations faster than any previous countries.
  - Kbelicius 6y ago
    Which countries would that be?
    - SerLava 6y ago
      For instance Russia, China
- artem247 6y ago
  Well in my country between 1945 and 1990 many good things were done in regards to education, healthcare, science, housing - millions of people got their first urban home for free. Of course it had a fair share of problems but I think it is at least comparable with capitalist states.
  - gadders 6y ago
    Which country was that? Did you live there then or were you born after that date?
  - Google234 6y ago
    The Soviet Union was a pile of rust by 1990. I’m not sure how you can justify the immense suffering and indiscriminate persecution just for that...
    - artem247 6y ago
      Ehh, did you live there let's say in between 1960 - 1990? Just for the record - no, it wasn't a pile of rust by 1990. It had free universal healthcare, free higher education, no need for mortgage, abundance of jobs. And in my family there was a history of persecution during Stalin time, surviving Holodomor, so I know these things first hand. I don't need lecturing on what went wrong from Westerners. And what about immense suffering after 1991? - Ethic conflicts, absolutely atrocious poverty, would have been much worse if not for some remnants of socialist safety net (de-facto free healthcare). The new capitalist society was not exactly a much of improvement on many areas. For example in 1993 Boris Eltsin (president of Russia) ordered shelling of Parliament by tanks. And that was fine with the West. Somehow.
- pvaldes 6y ago
  That depends on how you define success. If your main measure of success is economy, I wouldn't tag China as an economic failure exactly.
  - throwaway8581 6y ago
    I wouldn't tag China as a communist country for at least a couple decades now.
    - pvaldes 6y ago
      Then, all we have is a 'not true communist scotsman' spiral all the way down. If a country directed by a party named the Communist party is not communist, who could claim that tag for themselves? Not North Korea. A country frozen in time and obsessed by xenophobic purity, dictator worship, army and control of the citizens. This is the very own definition of dystopic fascism, bordering isolated religious cult. Definitely not communism, that always was a mixed bag of anarchists, misfits craving power and other undercurrents moving in similar directions before turning ameboid and splitting again or eating alive the other groups. Russia? is very "capitalism of the mob" now. As US, is just too big to define it, but it definitely has components of Neofeudalism and tug dictatorship IMHO with several thin layers of shiny democracy put strategically over it to cover the ugly rust. Communism has influenced the society, but is a thing of the past now (probably, I could be wrong).
      - helloworld11 6y ago
        The "no true scotsman" argument is very valid in many political and economic topics, but it doesn't remotely apply to China or Russia, two countries that have long since abandoned even the semblance of socialism or communism in favor of systems that more closely approach economic fascism. One can criticise countries thatt have failed at communism validly by citing real examples such as Cuba, which genuinely spent decades trying to implement and maintain these ideologies with rigour that closely resembled hardline socialism in practice. Nothig about today's China or today's Russia invalidades that criticism or those that are similar.
Chris2048 6y ago
You're engaging in as much hyperbole as the post you respond to, and you are also a HNer.

gadders 6y ago

Yes, because non-blockaded communist countries have been such glowing successes.

SerLava 6y ago
I mean, even the ones that were not just blockaded, but genocidally invaded, still turned from really bad feudal peasant states into modern industrial nations faster than any previous countries.
- Kbelicius 6y ago
  Which countries would that be?
  - SerLava 6y ago
    For instance Russia, China
artem247 6y ago
Well in my country between 1945 and 1990 many good things were done in regards to education, healthcare, science, housing - millions of people got their first urban home for free. Of course it had a fair share of problems but I think it is at least comparable with capitalist states.
- gadders 6y ago
  Which country was that? Did you live there then or were you born after that date?
- Google234 6y ago
  The Soviet Union was a pile of rust by 1990. I’m not sure how you can justify the immense suffering and indiscriminate persecution just for that...
  - artem247 6y ago
    Ehh, did you live there let's say in between 1960 - 1990? Just for the record - no, it wasn't a pile of rust by 1990. It had free universal healthcare, free higher education, no need for mortgage, abundance of jobs. And in my family there was a history of persecution during Stalin time, surviving Holodomor, so I know these things first hand. I don't need lecturing on what went wrong from Westerners. And what about immense suffering after 1991? - Ethic conflicts, absolutely atrocious poverty, would have been much worse if not for some remnants of socialist safety net (de-facto free healthcare). The new capitalist society was not exactly a much of improvement on many areas. For example in 1993 Boris Eltsin (president of Russia) ordered shelling of Parliament by tanks. And that was fine with the West. Somehow.
pvaldes 6y ago
That depends on how you define success. If your main measure of success is economy, I wouldn't tag China as an economic failure exactly.
- throwaway8581 6y ago
  I wouldn't tag China as a communist country for at least a couple decades now.
  - pvaldes 6y ago
    Then, all we have is a 'not true communist scotsman' spiral all the way down. If a country directed by a party named the Communist party is not communist, who could claim that tag for themselves? Not North Korea. A country frozen in time and obsessed by xenophobic purity, dictator worship, army and control of the citizens. This is the very own definition of dystopic fascism, bordering isolated religious cult. Definitely not communism, that always was a mixed bag of anarchists, misfits craving power and other undercurrents moving in similar directions before turning ameboid and splitting again or eating alive the other groups. Russia? is very "capitalism of the mob" now. As US, is just too big to define it, but it definitely has components of Neofeudalism and tug dictatorship IMHO with several thin layers of shiny democracy put strategically over it to cover the ugly rust. Communism has influenced the society, but is a thing of the past now (probably, I could be wrong).
    - helloworld11 6y ago
      The "no true scotsman" argument is very valid in many political and economic topics, but it doesn't remotely apply to China or Russia, two countries that have long since abandoned even the semblance of socialism or communism in favor of systems that more closely approach economic fascism. One can criticise countries thatt have failed at communism validly by citing real examples such as Cuba, which genuinely spent decades trying to implement and maintain these ideologies with rigour that closely resembled hardline socialism in practice. Nothig about today's China or today's Russia invalidades that criticism or those that are similar.

Chris2048 6y ago

You're engaging in as much hyperbole as the post you respond to, and you are also a HNer.