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It is very easy to win an argument if you change what it is you're arguing in the middle of a discussion. You said that "Prices have been spiraling out of contr

It is very easy to win an argument if you change what it is you're arguing in the middle of a discussion. You said that "Prices have been spiraling out of control". I said that the rate of price increases in healthcare in the United States have been relatively constant. Now, your response is that you, the commenter, used to pay nothing, and now you pay a lot more. Did you know that you are not the entire United States? Did you know that your experience is not a representative sample of all citizens of the United States? Did you decide to selectively ignore data that you provided, on your own, to prove a point that is only true for a fraction of people?

solosoyokaze 6y ago
I posted data that shows that price is indeed spiraling out of control so it’s not just my personal experience. My situation isn’t that unique. Why do you think they created the individual mandate? To force people who didn’t want or need insurance to pay for it. Zero to non-zero is a huge jump. If I was alone, they wouldn't have needed to create this legislation to artificially capture the market.
- Edman274 6y ago
  The price has been "spiraling out of control" for the past 30 years, at the same rate almost the entire time. Saying that it's the ACA's fault is to lie by omission, because you're blaming the past 10 years on something that's been a trend for 20 years before that. The fact that you now have to buy insurance is a separate issue from whether the costs have been spiraling out of control, because even if the prices had remained flat since 2009 your personal experience would be that you're spending more than you used to. That's not "cost". If I walk to work, then start driving a car, and then replace that for a truck, I don't say that "gas costs are spiraling out of control." You're conflating two things and think you made a slam dunk case. You didn't. It's embarrassing.
  - solosoyokaze 6y ago
    There's a huge difference between $100->$200 and $500->$1,000. People's earnings make it that there's a threshold that gets crossed where insurance becomes unaffordable. It's debatable if that happened before or after the ACA but the raw amount changed post-ACA is much larger than prior periods. People aren't measuring this by rate of change, their measuring it with their bank account. > If I walk to work, then start driving a car, and then replace that for a truck, I don't say that "gas costs are spiraling out of control." You're conflating two things and think you made a slam dunk case. You didn't. It's embarrassing. The correct analogy is that you live a block from work so you walk. Then one day the government introduces legislation that makes driving a car mandatory, so you have to buy one to drive the block to work. Your commute costs are definitely spiraling out of control at that point. > You're conflating two things and think you made a slam dunk case. You didn't. It's embarrassing. If you have a point to make, make it. You don't need to attack me as well.
    - Edman274 6y ago
      You said that "health care costs are spiraling out of control". Your justification for that is that you spend more money on health insurance than you used to back when you used to spend nothing because you got nothing. Making a blanket statement of "healthcare costs" and "out of control" needs to come with the following caveats: 1. They're spiraling out of control for you - 2. Because you used to pay nothing 3. Because you used to get nothing 4. Because you didn't worry about it. Say all that. The price, for the average consumer, that buys health insurance has been rising for decades. It has not slowed down because of the ACA but it hasn't sped up because of the ACA. You're making a blanket statement based on your atypical experience of not having health insurance and then making it seem like it affects everyone.

solosoyokaze 6y ago

I posted data that shows that price is indeed spiraling out of control so it’s not just my personal experience. My situation isn’t that unique. Why do you think they created the individual mandate? To force people who didn’t want or need insurance to pay for it. Zero to non-zero is a huge jump. If I was alone, they wouldn't have needed to create this legislation to artificially capture the market.

Edman274 6y ago
The price has been "spiraling out of control" for the past 30 years, at the same rate almost the entire time. Saying that it's the ACA's fault is to lie by omission, because you're blaming the past 10 years on something that's been a trend for 20 years before that. The fact that you now have to buy insurance is a separate issue from whether the costs have been spiraling out of control, because even if the prices had remained flat since 2009 your personal experience would be that you're spending more than you used to. That's not "cost". If I walk to work, then start driving a car, and then replace that for a truck, I don't say that "gas costs are spiraling out of control." You're conflating two things and think you made a slam dunk case. You didn't. It's embarrassing.
- solosoyokaze 6y ago
  There's a huge difference between $100->$200 and $500->$1,000. People's earnings make it that there's a threshold that gets crossed where insurance becomes unaffordable. It's debatable if that happened before or after the ACA but the raw amount changed post-ACA is much larger than prior periods. People aren't measuring this by rate of change, their measuring it with their bank account. > If I walk to work, then start driving a car, and then replace that for a truck, I don't say that "gas costs are spiraling out of control." You're conflating two things and think you made a slam dunk case. You didn't. It's embarrassing. The correct analogy is that you live a block from work so you walk. Then one day the government introduces legislation that makes driving a car mandatory, so you have to buy one to drive the block to work. Your commute costs are definitely spiraling out of control at that point. > You're conflating two things and think you made a slam dunk case. You didn't. It's embarrassing. If you have a point to make, make it. You don't need to attack me as well.
  - Edman274 6y ago
    You said that "health care costs are spiraling out of control". Your justification for that is that you spend more money on health insurance than you used to back when you used to spend nothing because you got nothing. Making a blanket statement of "healthcare costs" and "out of control" needs to come with the following caveats: 1. They're spiraling out of control for you - 2. Because you used to pay nothing 3. Because you used to get nothing 4. Because you didn't worry about it. Say all that. The price, for the average consumer, that buys health insurance has been rising for decades. It has not slowed down because of the ACA but it hasn't sped up because of the ACA. You're making a blanket statement based on your atypical experience of not having health insurance and then making it seem like it affects everyone.