4 ms·

Do the arithmetic: according to that very reference, the Australian stage-IV-at-diagnosis statistic for lung cancer is not 80% but 42%, and it seems this is unc

Do the arithmetic: according to that very reference, the Australian stage-IV-at-diagnosis statistic for lung cancer is not 80% but 42%, and it seems this is unchanged since 2011 [1]; notwithstanding which, cherry-picking lung cancer (notorious for late presentation) hardly invalidates the much more general observation being made. [1] https://ncci.canceraustralia.gov.au/features/national-cancer-stage-diagnosis-data https://ncci.canceraustralia.gov.au/features/national-cancer...

refurb 6y ago
It's only 42% because ~30% isn't even staged (those might or might not be stage 4). Drop that and 80% is stage 4. And no, a general observation of "we don't see stage 4 cancers in Australia, we have to go to the US" is clearly invalidated by this data. There are plenty of stage 4 cancers in Australia. Take a look at the US Seer data it appears more is diagnosed earlier in the US.[1] 50% are not stage IV and only 2% are unstaged. [1]https://seer.cancer.gov/ https://seer.cancer.gov/
- inopinatus 6y ago
  No-one said "we don't see stage 4 cancers in Australia", so I'm afraid your so-called "bullshit detector" is broken. On the other hand: intentionally misrepresenting people's statements, and crudely and inappropriately manipulating statistics, sets off my bullshit detector.
  - refurb 6y ago
    Read the OP's comment - "Key quote: "these are cases we hardly ever get to see at home"" That's a bullshit statement based on the data. Australia clearly gets plenty of these types of patients.
    - inopinatus 6y ago
      I am the OP, so along with your "bullshit detector", I'm afraid your eye for details may also be due for a service. A stage IV of any single one of the myriad subtypes of cancer is not a representative example of all cancers, let alone a guide to their stage distribution. Cherry-picking one, and then grossly distorting its stats, tells us nothing. The simple fact is, a very senior doctor, whose job is to diagnose cancer, observed that US institutions have a disproportionately large collection of late-stage presentations to study.
      - refurb 6y ago
        That’s why I said “there must be data missing” and I gave an example of a fully screened cancer (colorectal) that still has stage 4 prevalence in Australia. So pardon me if I’m struggling to figure out what cancer this is when the details are sparse. So since you’re the OP, do you want to share the tumor type that “you rarely see stage 4 in Australia” but is apparently super common at Stanford? Since I work in healthcare I’d be super interested to know.
        inopinatus 6y ago
        I will not be bothering the doctor quoted with this sealioning-by-proxy. Had it not come on the coat-tails of such bad-faith misquoting, cherry-picking, statistical manipulation, misrepresentation et cetera, perhaps I might. Instead I bid you a good day.
        refurb 6y ago
        Well in that case, you won't hold it against me if I doubt your story entirely.

refurb 6y ago

It's only 42% because ~30% isn't even staged (those might or might not be stage 4). Drop that and 80% is stage 4. And no, a general observation of "we don't see stage 4 cancers in Australia, we have to go to the US" is clearly invalidated by this data. There are plenty of stage 4 cancers in Australia. Take a look at the US Seer data it appears more is diagnosed earlier in the US.[1] 50% are not stage IV and only 2% are unstaged. [1]https://seer.cancer.gov/ https://seer.cancer.gov/

inopinatus 6y ago
No-one said "we don't see stage 4 cancers in Australia", so I'm afraid your so-called "bullshit detector" is broken. On the other hand: intentionally misrepresenting people's statements, and crudely and inappropriately manipulating statistics, sets off my bullshit detector.
- refurb 6y ago
  Read the OP's comment - "Key quote: "these are cases we hardly ever get to see at home"" That's a bullshit statement based on the data. Australia clearly gets plenty of these types of patients.
  - inopinatus 6y ago
    I am the OP, so along with your "bullshit detector", I'm afraid your eye for details may also be due for a service. A stage IV of any single one of the myriad subtypes of cancer is not a representative example of all cancers, let alone a guide to their stage distribution. Cherry-picking one, and then grossly distorting its stats, tells us nothing. The simple fact is, a very senior doctor, whose job is to diagnose cancer, observed that US institutions have a disproportionately large collection of late-stage presentations to study.
    - refurb 6y ago
      That’s why I said “there must be data missing” and I gave an example of a fully screened cancer (colorectal) that still has stage 4 prevalence in Australia. So pardon me if I’m struggling to figure out what cancer this is when the details are sparse. So since you’re the OP, do you want to share the tumor type that “you rarely see stage 4 in Australia” but is apparently super common at Stanford? Since I work in healthcare I’d be super interested to know.
      - inopinatus 6y ago
        I will not be bothering the doctor quoted with this sealioning-by-proxy. Had it not come on the coat-tails of such bad-faith misquoting, cherry-picking, statistical manipulation, misrepresentation et cetera, perhaps I might. Instead I bid you a good day.
        refurb 6y ago
        Well in that case, you won't hold it against me if I doubt your story entirely.