4 ms·

Obviously it would be better to have minor needs met as well. But the point is that when you say “I now have to wait too long for minor things, therefore health

Obviously it would be better to have minor needs met as well. But the point is that when you say “I now have to wait too long for minor things, therefore healthcare for all is bad”, you are implying that you would prefer that you got treatment for a minor condition than someone else got treatment for a major condition. If the main argument against nationalized healthcare is that so many more people can get healthcare that your minor condition gets bumped down in priority... well yeah, the point is that many more people can get treatment for major problems!

ajsnigrutin 6y ago
The problem with minor conditions is, that you still have to pay for them. You pay for dental, but don't get the service. I pay insurance for my car (it's mandatory here - the mandatory part only covers damages on other peoples cars when you're the guilty one). I also pay (extra) for windshield repair, and when a small rock on the highway breaks my windshield, i go to one of the preaproved service centers (or do the paperwork to do it somewhere else), get the glass replaced, and go home after ~30 minutes. I also pay for dental in my mandatory government insurance (no way to opt-out), and when i see a dark spot on my tooth, i call the government dentist, and they tell me to come in six months, at 11.30am on a tuesday. I could wait that long, but by that time, my tooth could get worse, and a simple drill-drill-fill-fill might end up as an extraction or worse. So basically, I either have to pay for a private dentist to do it (full price, not just the difference in price compared to a government dentist), or wait six months and risk it. Either way, i pay for dental, that I don't get. Same for eg. dermatologists... find a spreding dark spot on the skin.. wait six months+ (probably more now, due to the plague), or pay 70eur and get it checked out the next day. Wait six months, and a simple burn-off could be cancer.
- ClumsyPilot 6y ago
  But thats how taxes work: i pay for schools, and i dont have kids, i dont get a rebate I were to homeschool kids or send them private. I pay for roads and i dont have a car, i don't get a rebate if i walk. Etc.
  - Alupis 6y ago
    Those are not the same. Bad teeth impacts you and you alone. On the other hand, your nation, state, city, employer, etc are all run by people who were educated in this country. You directly benefit from roads every time you buy goods from any business, etc.
    - roganartu 6y ago
      They are far more similar than you give them credit for. Part of the reason healthcare is so expensive in the US is because people cannot afford to get preventative care and so they wait until they are basically dying and then go to the emergency room. If they couldn’t afford $100 to see a doctor before, they can’t afford the $100k the hospital will bill them so they just go bankrupt and the hospital loses it all. The hospital covers these expected delinquent accounts by charging more to people with insurance. The insurance covers these higher costs by charging higher premiums. You are already paying for other people, you’re just doing it the expensive way because there’s so many for-profit organizations in between you and those other people.
    - ClumsyPilot 6y ago
      It's absolutely the same, has COVID taught you nothing about what happens to an economy when an diseases are out of controll? Do you think disease ridden population carrying ringworms earns well, shows up for work reliably and are good customers? If healthcare was left to free market completely, we'd see return of The Plague!
      - Alupis 6y ago
        You cannot transmit your tooth rot to anyone else. > If healthcare was left to free market completely What evidence of this do you have? Because, in the US, healthcare largely is free market and we do not have the return of any plague or anything similar. In fact, it's free markets that bore out the vaccination the world is using to fight the current pandemic.

ajsnigrutin 6y ago

The problem with minor conditions is, that you still have to pay for them. You pay for dental, but don't get the service. I pay insurance for my car (it's mandatory here - the mandatory part only covers damages on other peoples cars when you're the guilty one). I also pay (extra) for windshield repair, and when a small rock on the highway breaks my windshield, i go to one of the preaproved service centers (or do the paperwork to do it somewhere else), get the glass replaced, and go home after ~30 minutes. I also pay for dental in my mandatory government insurance (no way to opt-out), and when i see a dark spot on my tooth, i call the government dentist, and they tell me to come in six months, at 11.30am on a tuesday. I could wait that long, but by that time, my tooth could get worse, and a simple drill-drill-fill-fill might end up as an extraction or worse. So basically, I either have to pay for a private dentist to do it (full price, not just the difference in price compared to a government dentist), or wait six months and risk it. Either way, i pay for dental, that I don't get. Same for eg. dermatologists... find a spreding dark spot on the skin.. wait six months+ (probably more now, due to the plague), or pay 70eur and get it checked out the next day. Wait six months, and a simple burn-off could be cancer.

ClumsyPilot 6y ago
But thats how taxes work: i pay for schools, and i dont have kids, i dont get a rebate I were to homeschool kids or send them private. I pay for roads and i dont have a car, i don't get a rebate if i walk. Etc.
- Alupis 6y ago
  Those are not the same. Bad teeth impacts you and you alone. On the other hand, your nation, state, city, employer, etc are all run by people who were educated in this country. You directly benefit from roads every time you buy goods from any business, etc.
  - roganartu 6y ago
    They are far more similar than you give them credit for. Part of the reason healthcare is so expensive in the US is because people cannot afford to get preventative care and so they wait until they are basically dying and then go to the emergency room. If they couldn’t afford $100 to see a doctor before, they can’t afford the $100k the hospital will bill them so they just go bankrupt and the hospital loses it all. The hospital covers these expected delinquent accounts by charging more to people with insurance. The insurance covers these higher costs by charging higher premiums. You are already paying for other people, you’re just doing it the expensive way because there’s so many for-profit organizations in between you and those other people.
  - ClumsyPilot 6y ago
    It's absolutely the same, has COVID taught you nothing about what happens to an economy when an diseases are out of controll? Do you think disease ridden population carrying ringworms earns well, shows up for work reliably and are good customers? If healthcare was left to free market completely, we'd see return of The Plague!
    - Alupis 6y ago
      You cannot transmit your tooth rot to anyone else. > If healthcare was left to free market completely What evidence of this do you have? Because, in the US, healthcare largely is free market and we do not have the return of any plague or anything similar. In fact, it's free markets that bore out the vaccination the world is using to fight the current pandemic.