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Historically, countries that have outlawed speech have outlawed “talking about being gay” far more often than “harassing gay people”. I suspect it’s a unique f

Historically, countries that have outlawed speech have outlawed “talking about being gay” far more often than “harassing gay people”. I suspect it’s a unique form of madness that assumes that if you open the door to outlawing speech in America, then future Trumps and Pences and Bushes of the world will refrain from such a thing out of the kindness of their hearts.

geofft 6y ago
Historically, countries that have valued free speech (the US and much of Western Europe) have not had a great track record of actually extending those legal protections to truly unpopular speech, either. The way to make sure you have the right to talk about people being gay is to fight for those rights by throwing bricks at cop cars, not to trust a bunch of think tanks who say they value the abstract ideal of free speech.
- jfengel 6y ago
  We really need to not throw bricks at cop cars. It doesn't attract additional support, and it's easily co-opted to spread a false narrative that it's only about violence. There are plenty of agents provocateurs happy to throw bricks and then point fingers at others. It's certainly true that we also must not give in to BS abstractions about the virtue of free speech to solve all ills. That's also a tactic used to silence people, forcing them into quieter and quieter protests while falsely portraying them as violent. We can't completely wrap ourselves up when we know that they that they're just going to lie about it. That's a hard line to walk, but calling for violence is clearly over it.
  - geofft 6y ago
    ... I'm referencing the actual historical event that is celebrated (by all the world's major corporations, now) as Pride. Is your claim that this event did not attract additional support and was ill-advised? Violence works, and I hope you don't mean that calling for violence is over the "line" of acceptable free speech - where would America be without writings that called for violence?
- throwaway19937 6y ago
  > The way to make sure you have the right to talk about people being gay is to fight for those rights by throwing bricks at cop cars, not to trust a bunch of think tanks who say they value the abstract ideal of free speech. If there's enough civil unrest then it's much easier for a law-and-order candidate like Nixon to win votes; I'm expecting this to happen in the next election.

geofft 6y ago

Historically, countries that have valued free speech (the US and much of Western Europe) have not had a great track record of actually extending those legal protections to truly unpopular speech, either. The way to make sure you have the right to talk about people being gay is to fight for those rights by throwing bricks at cop cars, not to trust a bunch of think tanks who say they value the abstract ideal of free speech.

jfengel 6y ago
We really need to not throw bricks at cop cars. It doesn't attract additional support, and it's easily co-opted to spread a false narrative that it's only about violence. There are plenty of agents provocateurs happy to throw bricks and then point fingers at others. It's certainly true that we also must not give in to BS abstractions about the virtue of free speech to solve all ills. That's also a tactic used to silence people, forcing them into quieter and quieter protests while falsely portraying them as violent. We can't completely wrap ourselves up when we know that they that they're just going to lie about it. That's a hard line to walk, but calling for violence is clearly over it.
- geofft 6y ago
  ... I'm referencing the actual historical event that is celebrated (by all the world's major corporations, now) as Pride. Is your claim that this event did not attract additional support and was ill-advised? Violence works, and I hope you don't mean that calling for violence is over the "line" of acceptable free speech - where would America be without writings that called for violence?
throwaway19937 6y ago
> The way to make sure you have the right to talk about people being gay is to fight for those rights by throwing bricks at cop cars, not to trust a bunch of think tanks who say they value the abstract ideal of free speech. If there's enough civil unrest then it's much easier for a law-and-order candidate like Nixon to win votes; I'm expecting this to happen in the next election.