7 ms·

> I'm often asked a question like, "How are you able to award a diploma on the basis of nothing other than an essay and a letter of support?" The answer to this

> I'm often asked a question like, "How are you able to award a diploma on the basis of nothing other than an essay and a letter of support?" The answer to this very reasonable question has two parts. First, I'm in a legal position to offer a diploma on this basis simply because there are no mandated requirements, in California law or anywhere else, for graduation from a private high school. (California law sets many subject matter graduation requirements for public high schools.) A co-worker of mine formed her own private high school — while in public high school — and then graduated herself from it. She was running a successful business already, so it made sense to her at the time. I was pretty shocked to learn this because I had no idea something like that was possible, and might have considered that route as well (although who's to say it would have turned out better?). For self-motivated, intellectual kids, I think it would be a dream come true — at least myself and several folks I went to high school with would have chosen to enroll in college classes much earlier, or do self-directed study, if we had the choice.

Waterluvian 6y ago
Completing high school is one of those things that isn't a big deal for some people who are already on a good track, are broadly intelligent. But I'm going to guess the overwhelming majority of people who think it isn't for them actually need it quite a bit. I also think for self motivated intellectual kids, completing high school anyways really isn't much of a roadblock or time waster.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- anonymousiam 6y ago
  Some people have a learning style that is not compatible with public high school. This is true for both me and my kids. All of us had problems in school and were evaluated to see if we had learning disabilities. We all tested above the 98 percentile and were in AT/GATE programs. Also, we all tested out of high school via the CHSPE. For me, it was a choice that I have never regretted (except for not going to the prom). It put me on a career track where I was years ahead of my peers. For my kids, not so much. They had such bad experiences in high school that they are sour on higher education. I am still working on convincing them to finish a college degree, but I feel like a hypocrite because I did not get mine until age 50. Back when I was their age, I was lucky to work in jobs were nobody cared whether or not I had a degree. Today it's impossible to get a "professional" job without a degree.
  - oorza 6y ago
    Honestly sounds like you, and to a lesser extent your children, needed high school for non-academic reasons as much as most people need it for academic reasons. If you have problems in school and test in the top 2% of intelligence, you have problems in other areas that need to be addressed, and can be in a social classroom. Speaking from experience.
    - jcims 6y ago
      I think you have to allow for the possibility that not all high schools have ’social classrooms’. Mine was filled with a bunch of children in adult bodies operating on hormones and hairspray. I hated it so much I didn’t want to be surrounded by it in college and decided to commute instead. I dropped out after three years. I was also fortunate to find a career path that didn’t require a degree, and while my oldest child had no choice based on her career interests, I’m having the same struggle with my youngest who’s in her freshman year with an undecided major.
      - swader999 6y ago
        Yep, sort of like being in a bar full of drunk people and you're stone cold sober.
      - Waterluvian 6y ago
        I get what you're saying. But other than my girlfriend, being a Muppet was my favourite part of high school. Screwed around so much. Learned how to be quick witted and fast on my toes. Then came university and that all went away, seemingly forever.
    - thethethethe 6y ago
      This is kind of rude. You are flat out saying that OP and their children likely have problems because they are both smart and don't go to school. Have you ever considered that school might be the problem? That maybe it doesn't work for everyone the same? Speaking from experience.
    - anonymousiam 6y ago
- ramraj07 6y ago
  For the people who you categorise as “thinking they don’t need it but they do”, do they really? It’s not like the majority of the folks around you remember an aorta of anything they learned in HS. The only things they remember are probably the things that happened outside of it. Not saying it’s justified that they skip HS but I feel like there’s more thought needed.
  - dcolkitt 6y ago
    I agree that most of higher education is wasteful signaling. But in my (admittedly limited) experience, the typical American high school dropout lacks functional literacy, numeracy and basic factual knowledge. I don’t think trigonometry or foreign language is an essential skill for 99% of people. But explaining simple ideas in writing, or being able to compare the costs of a yearly vs monthly billing plan, or knowing how birth control works are pretty important life skills.
  - selftest 6y ago
    I don’t know that that’s true for most people; often the topics being taught aren’t as important as the skills you’re being taught/exposed to. Many people, especially Americans, never attend college. High school is the only chance before adulthood to socialize with your peers and learn what it means to interact with people of various upbringings. Anecdotally, my sibling graduated with a class of nine from a private Christian school and they are very far behind from a social and educational standpoint when compared to me, who graduated from a normal public high school with a few hundred of my peers. She also never read any of the books I was made to read in high school... I could not fathom the blank spot that has created for my sibling. Maybe I was fortunate to go to school before Common Core, or lucky I had more good teachers than bad but 20 years out from HS I might not remember everything I learned there, but the stuff I do remember helped mold how I think about things.
  - lelanthran 6y ago
    > It’s not like the majority of the folks around you remember an aorta of anything they learned in HS The ones who did (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aorta https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aorta) biology might remember it :-)
- lovelyviking 6y ago
  >school anyways really isn't much of a roadblock or time waster. I think it is both. It also discourages to think. I had to re-learn most of the things becasue I was told BS in the school. The current school system is outdated because it was designed too long ago.
- telesilla 6y ago
  I pretty much dropped out of high school the last mandatory year by taking classes that didn't have exams and breezing through knowing I already had university entrance through a scholarship. But honestly I regret it often as I missed out on extra STEM learning that I ended up having to teach myself anyway. Going to university a year earlier wasn't an option so I feel I was let out early with no oversight, at a time when my brain was a sponge.
musicale 6y ago
> A co-worker of mine formed her own private high school — while in public high school — and then graduated herself from it. She was running a successful business already, so it made sense to her at the time. "Teachers hate her: smart student figures out secret hack for early graduation from high school!" :) Minimal-requirement/self-directed HS does sound like it could be great for some students. College courses are also so much better than high school courses in so many ways, particularly the freedom and self-determination you enjoy in terms of selecting or rejecting classes, greater flexibility in time scheduling, and choosing whether or not to attend lectures. Not to mention more advanced material and potentially better teaching, lab, and library resources. I wonder - do you need a high school diploma to enroll at a community college?
- intrepidhero 6y ago
  Not in my neck of the woods. Community College had us sit for placement tests and then we just started enrolling in classes at 16. It was great. Way better use of my time than highschool.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- watwut 6y ago
  In what I have seen, colleges don't have better teaching. They are not designed to have better teaching then high schools. The student is basically expected to be already skilled enough to not need educator, but only expert that knows stuff. It may be better fit for minority of students, but better teaching is that that thing they get there.
chrisseaton 6y ago
Ask yourself what is the point and value of credential you award yourself?
- Igelau 6y ago
  The point in this case is to satisfy the state's requirements. The value? (Whatever the state says it is) + (increase in earnings) - (bureaucratic overhead)
- austhrow743 6y ago
  Subversion of the credentialing system.
- ipaddr 6y ago
  In this case you can create a school with whatever name you want. You can give yourself A's and go to college. You can make your editor of the paper. From your private school you can setup a coop opportunity for yourself. Get student discounts. Get school/educator discounts. What can't you do as a private school with no state requirements?
- toast0 6y ago
  What's the point and value of a credential obtained elsewhere that you could have awarded yourself?
- IIAOPSW 6y ago
  Gets you out of child jail.
peterfield 6y ago
When deciding to home school our children for a year or two whilst living in Colorado - we considered paying some of these registered "setup-your-own-curriculum private home school service providers". When discussing on the phone with them - not one was ever able to give me a meaningful answer to "do your service actually provides anything that I could not do myself for free in a few minutes?"
- throwawaysea 6y ago
  I’m not sure what value they provide today but my prediction is that with continued momentum from teachers unions shutting down alternate education options, such services will provide legitimacy or certification to meet state imposed requirements in name only, so that parents retain freedoms to educate their own children as they see fit with the service providing a shield against the state.
mbg721 6y ago
Even much more minor versions of hacks like that play well in US interviews, IME. Nobody wants to see the straight-laced head-down academic--they want the smirking rebel who broke all the rules and drove the homecoming float anyway. (Never mind that the people who broke the rules four years earlier now have criminal records for netsending "hi" to everyone in the school.) One of the things nobody tells you in college is what low regard employers have of college metrics, to the point that they actively reward subverting it even while they require the degree.
- hawaiianbrah 6y ago
  Many employers care a fair bit about the college metric that is your GPA
  - mbg721 6y ago
    A GPA that's much too low can hurt you, but it's way lower on the priority list at most employers than students are led to believe.
  - diogenescynic 6y ago
    There’s more than just GPA. GPA is usually a function of how rich your parents are. I’ll take the kid who held a job and went to school over the kid who just went to school.
astura 6y ago
My cousin went to a private high school to set him straight. It worked and he graduated and the school really improved his overall behavior and outlook in life. Now, this was a real school with real paying students who physically went there everyday, real work, and real qualifications for graduation. However, he found out the hard way that it didn't count at all, because his high school wasn't accredited. He constantly had roadblocks put up in front of him because as far as anyone who mattered was concerned he didn't graduate high school because his school wasn't accredited. He ended up having to get his GED in order to get into massage therapy school. Once he got his GED everything was fine - that "high school equivalent" hard qualification needed for literally everything he was trying to do in life. So being cutesy with creating your own high school will work just as well as saying you have a degree from the school of hard knocks. Most community colleges will partner with local high schools allow high performing high schoolers to dual enroll, couple people I know did that.
- smabie 6y ago
  What kind of employers even give a shit about accredited high schools? I didn't even graduate high school and I don't think a single person has ever asked about it.
  - hunter-gatherer 6y ago
    The only employer that ever asked me about high school was the army. When I enlisted, they were adamant about it. Incidentally the army was the catalyst to get me from my lower class upbringing to 6 digit salary. Aside from the army, I can't think anyone has ever asked me about it.
  - astura 6y ago
    So it either matters, or it doesn't. In cases were it matters, your cutesy personal school isn't going to me the requirements. In cases where it doesn't matter then it just doesn't matter. So creating a school is 100% pointless. To answer your question, governments and any other employers who have codified job requirements (large ones, mostly), and maybe others. My husband spent two decades in the Navy, was hired for his job based entirely on his Navy experience, and still was required to prove he graduated from high school before starting. I thought it was very silly. Beyond that, different programs (not specifically employers) my cousin was interested in were requiring his high school to be accredited. Massage school was one of them, there were others he mentioned but this was nearly two decades ago so I don't recall specifics.
pjc50 6y ago
This is both hilarious and slightly alarming, because it implies the existence of a lot more shadow schools that may not be as well intentioned but aren't subject to scrutiny. I was homeschooled for a bit in the 80s in the UK, but I think it would be considerably harder these days as every form of schooling is subject to OFSTED inspection and there have been a set of scandals relating to tiny religious schools with weird curriculums.

Waterluvian 6y ago

Completing high school is one of those things that isn't a big deal for some people who are already on a good track, are broadly intelligent. But I'm going to guess the overwhelming majority of people who think it isn't for them actually need it quite a bit. I also think for self motivated intellectual kids, completing high school anyways really isn't much of a roadblock or time waster.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
anonymousiam 6y ago
Some people have a learning style that is not compatible with public high school. This is true for both me and my kids. All of us had problems in school and were evaluated to see if we had learning disabilities. We all tested above the 98 percentile and were in AT/GATE programs. Also, we all tested out of high school via the CHSPE. For me, it was a choice that I have never regretted (except for not going to the prom). It put me on a career track where I was years ahead of my peers. For my kids, not so much. They had such bad experiences in high school that they are sour on higher education. I am still working on convincing them to finish a college degree, but I feel like a hypocrite because I did not get mine until age 50. Back when I was their age, I was lucky to work in jobs were nobody cared whether or not I had a degree. Today it's impossible to get a "professional" job without a degree.
- oorza 6y ago
  Honestly sounds like you, and to a lesser extent your children, needed high school for non-academic reasons as much as most people need it for academic reasons. If you have problems in school and test in the top 2% of intelligence, you have problems in other areas that need to be addressed, and can be in a social classroom. Speaking from experience.
  - jcims 6y ago
    I think you have to allow for the possibility that not all high schools have ’social classrooms’. Mine was filled with a bunch of children in adult bodies operating on hormones and hairspray. I hated it so much I didn’t want to be surrounded by it in college and decided to commute instead. I dropped out after three years. I was also fortunate to find a career path that didn’t require a degree, and while my oldest child had no choice based on her career interests, I’m having the same struggle with my youngest who’s in her freshman year with an undecided major.
    - swader999 6y ago
      Yep, sort of like being in a bar full of drunk people and you're stone cold sober.
    - Waterluvian 6y ago
      I get what you're saying. But other than my girlfriend, being a Muppet was my favourite part of high school. Screwed around so much. Learned how to be quick witted and fast on my toes. Then came university and that all went away, seemingly forever.
  - thethethethe 6y ago
    This is kind of rude. You are flat out saying that OP and their children likely have problems because they are both smart and don't go to school. Have you ever considered that school might be the problem? That maybe it doesn't work for everyone the same? Speaking from experience.
  - anonymousiam 6y ago
ramraj07 6y ago
For the people who you categorise as “thinking they don’t need it but they do”, do they really? It’s not like the majority of the folks around you remember an aorta of anything they learned in HS. The only things they remember are probably the things that happened outside of it. Not saying it’s justified that they skip HS but I feel like there’s more thought needed.
- dcolkitt 6y ago
  I agree that most of higher education is wasteful signaling. But in my (admittedly limited) experience, the typical American high school dropout lacks functional literacy, numeracy and basic factual knowledge. I don’t think trigonometry or foreign language is an essential skill for 99% of people. But explaining simple ideas in writing, or being able to compare the costs of a yearly vs monthly billing plan, or knowing how birth control works are pretty important life skills.
- selftest 6y ago
  I don’t know that that’s true for most people; often the topics being taught aren’t as important as the skills you’re being taught/exposed to. Many people, especially Americans, never attend college. High school is the only chance before adulthood to socialize with your peers and learn what it means to interact with people of various upbringings. Anecdotally, my sibling graduated with a class of nine from a private Christian school and they are very far behind from a social and educational standpoint when compared to me, who graduated from a normal public high school with a few hundred of my peers. She also never read any of the books I was made to read in high school... I could not fathom the blank spot that has created for my sibling. Maybe I was fortunate to go to school before Common Core, or lucky I had more good teachers than bad but 20 years out from HS I might not remember everything I learned there, but the stuff I do remember helped mold how I think about things.
- lelanthran 6y ago
  > It’s not like the majority of the folks around you remember an aorta of anything they learned in HS The ones who did (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aorta https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aorta) biology might remember it :-)
lovelyviking 6y ago
>school anyways really isn't much of a roadblock or time waster. I think it is both. It also discourages to think. I had to re-learn most of the things becasue I was told BS in the school. The current school system is outdated because it was designed too long ago.
telesilla 6y ago
I pretty much dropped out of high school the last mandatory year by taking classes that didn't have exams and breezing through knowing I already had university entrance through a scholarship. But honestly I regret it often as I missed out on extra STEM learning that I ended up having to teach myself anyway. Going to university a year earlier wasn't an option so I feel I was let out early with no oversight, at a time when my brain was a sponge.

musicale 6y ago

> A co-worker of mine formed her own private high school — while in public high school — and then graduated herself from it. She was running a successful business already, so it made sense to her at the time. "Teachers hate her: smart student figures out secret hack for early graduation from high school!" :) Minimal-requirement/self-directed HS does sound like it could be great for some students. College courses are also so much better than high school courses in so many ways, particularly the freedom and self-determination you enjoy in terms of selecting or rejecting classes, greater flexibility in time scheduling, and choosing whether or not to attend lectures. Not to mention more advanced material and potentially better teaching, lab, and library resources. I wonder - do you need a high school diploma to enroll at a community college?

intrepidhero 6y ago
Not in my neck of the woods. Community College had us sit for placement tests and then we just started enrolling in classes at 16. It was great. Way better use of my time than highschool.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
watwut 6y ago
In what I have seen, colleges don't have better teaching. They are not designed to have better teaching then high schools. The student is basically expected to be already skilled enough to not need educator, but only expert that knows stuff. It may be better fit for minority of students, but better teaching is that that thing they get there.

chrisseaton 6y ago

Ask yourself what is the point and value of credential you award yourself?

Igelau 6y ago
The point in this case is to satisfy the state's requirements. The value? (Whatever the state says it is) + (increase in earnings) - (bureaucratic overhead)
austhrow743 6y ago
Subversion of the credentialing system.
ipaddr 6y ago
In this case you can create a school with whatever name you want. You can give yourself A's and go to college. You can make your editor of the paper. From your private school you can setup a coop opportunity for yourself. Get student discounts. Get school/educator discounts. What can't you do as a private school with no state requirements?
toast0 6y ago
What's the point and value of a credential obtained elsewhere that you could have awarded yourself?
IIAOPSW 6y ago
Gets you out of child jail.

peterfield 6y ago

When deciding to home school our children for a year or two whilst living in Colorado - we considered paying some of these registered "setup-your-own-curriculum private home school service providers". When discussing on the phone with them - not one was ever able to give me a meaningful answer to "do your service actually provides anything that I could not do myself for free in a few minutes?"

throwawaysea 6y ago
I’m not sure what value they provide today but my prediction is that with continued momentum from teachers unions shutting down alternate education options, such services will provide legitimacy or certification to meet state imposed requirements in name only, so that parents retain freedoms to educate their own children as they see fit with the service providing a shield against the state.

mbg721 6y ago

Even much more minor versions of hacks like that play well in US interviews, IME. Nobody wants to see the straight-laced head-down academic--they want the smirking rebel who broke all the rules and drove the homecoming float anyway. (Never mind that the people who broke the rules four years earlier now have criminal records for netsending "hi" to everyone in the school.) One of the things nobody tells you in college is what low regard employers have of college metrics, to the point that they actively reward subverting it even while they require the degree.

hawaiianbrah 6y ago
Many employers care a fair bit about the college metric that is your GPA
- mbg721 6y ago
  A GPA that's much too low can hurt you, but it's way lower on the priority list at most employers than students are led to believe.
- diogenescynic 6y ago
  There’s more than just GPA. GPA is usually a function of how rich your parents are. I’ll take the kid who held a job and went to school over the kid who just went to school.

astura 6y ago

My cousin went to a private high school to set him straight. It worked and he graduated and the school really improved his overall behavior and outlook in life. Now, this was a real school with real paying students who physically went there everyday, real work, and real qualifications for graduation. However, he found out the hard way that it didn't count at all, because his high school wasn't accredited. He constantly had roadblocks put up in front of him because as far as anyone who mattered was concerned he didn't graduate high school because his school wasn't accredited. He ended up having to get his GED in order to get into massage therapy school. Once he got his GED everything was fine - that "high school equivalent" hard qualification needed for literally everything he was trying to do in life. So being cutesy with creating your own high school will work just as well as saying you have a degree from the school of hard knocks. Most community colleges will partner with local high schools allow high performing high schoolers to dual enroll, couple people I know did that.

smabie 6y ago
What kind of employers even give a shit about accredited high schools? I didn't even graduate high school and I don't think a single person has ever asked about it.
- hunter-gatherer 6y ago
  The only employer that ever asked me about high school was the army. When I enlisted, they were adamant about it. Incidentally the army was the catalyst to get me from my lower class upbringing to 6 digit salary. Aside from the army, I can't think anyone has ever asked me about it.
- astura 6y ago
  So it either matters, or it doesn't. In cases were it matters, your cutesy personal school isn't going to me the requirements. In cases where it doesn't matter then it just doesn't matter. So creating a school is 100% pointless. To answer your question, governments and any other employers who have codified job requirements (large ones, mostly), and maybe others. My husband spent two decades in the Navy, was hired for his job based entirely on his Navy experience, and still was required to prove he graduated from high school before starting. I thought it was very silly. Beyond that, different programs (not specifically employers) my cousin was interested in were requiring his high school to be accredited. Massage school was one of them, there were others he mentioned but this was nearly two decades ago so I don't recall specifics.

pjc50 6y ago

This is both hilarious and slightly alarming, because it implies the existence of a lot more shadow schools that may not be as well intentioned but aren't subject to scrutiny. I was homeschooled for a bit in the 80s in the UK, but I think it would be considerably harder these days as every form of schooling is subject to OFSTED inspection and there have been a set of scandals relating to tiny religious schools with weird curriculums.