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It's quickly getting to the point where being exposed to youtube at all just opens you up to a ton of intentional manipulation from an organization who's entire

by swiley 6y ago

It's quickly getting to the point where being exposed to youtube at all just opens you up to a ton of intentional manipulation from an organization who's entire product is manipulating people for pay. It's probably best to completely avoid all of it.

cbozeman 6y ago
There's entirely too much good stuff on YouTube to ignore. I learn so much there, all for free.
- Syonyk 6y ago
  But what are the opportunity costs of learning stuff on YouTube, especially if you're watching hours of content? There is good stuff in there - don't get me wrong. It's just that the good stuff you want to find is often quite hidden, and I've on occasion spent more time trying to find some video that actually shows a tricky part of some bit of equipment maintenance than it would take to just do things the slow way (think "If you know the exact sequence of steps, you can slip the alternator out this hole between the engine and suspension - or you can just unbolt the exhaust and lower the alternator out that way" sort of tasks - if it takes longer to find a video with the steps clearly displayed than to just drop the exhaust, you've taken longer). I've also found that YouTube leads to a very poor, surface understanding of most issues - and this isn't the fault of YouTube specifically, it's just a limit of video. If I want to learn about a new topic, I'll typically try to find three or so books on it and read those. A single book can have biases and misunderstandings, but by the time you've read a few, it's usually clear enough what the consensus is. Does it take more time than an hour or two video? Certainly. But I also get a far, far better understanding of the material (which, if it's an area I care to learn about, is probably useful) than I would through videos. Plus, I use an awful lot less data in the process. I'm perfectly happy to be called a curmudgeon or such with regards to my preferences for text and images over video, and there may be part of it that's true - but I've weighed video versus the alternatives, and outside entertainment (which there's certainly some value in), I find video coming up wanting. Also, books don't keep (buy this!) interrupting the content (buy that!) to feed me ads for (vote for this person because their opponent eats babies!) whatever happens to (watch this movie!) be paying the best rates (check out this new online bank and stock trading app!) at the moment.
  - sokoloff 6y ago
    I feel like I often have time saved on almost exactly the situation you described. Changing the alternator on our Honda CR-V, there's a method to remove the fan and fan support and pull the alternator out the front of the car and top instead of doing a lot more disassembly on the front of the engine (side of the car) and draining the coolant. I wouldn't have thought to do it that way if I hadn't been in the habit of watching 2 or 3 videos of new-to-me car repairs. I find myself watching zero mass-market television and a lot more YouTube (tech, electronics, machining, mostly) and think it a lot better value for entertainment time spent than TV ever was. (Sure, it's not as dense as reading a technical book, but after a day of work, I'm more up for the casual experience.)
  - cbozeman 6y ago
    I consider YouTube a tool. It gives me, as you pointed out, surface level knowledge. Once I'm armed with that, I can go dig deeper and find the books or resources I need to gain expert-level knowledge.
  - II2II 6y ago
    > I'm perfectly happy to be called a curmudgeon or such with regards to my preferences for text and images over video, and there may be part of it that's true - but I've weighed video versus the alternatives, and outside entertainment (which there's certainly some value in), I find video coming up wanting. I agree with your preference for books, but I am going to add a caveat: the quality of books varies considerably, with a good video being better than a mediocre book. That was not much of a problem when I lived in a big city. It was easy to walk into a bookstore or library to pick out something of value. Living in a small city limits the options. Buying online means buying sight unseen. In the worse case, ratings can be misleading. In the best case, recommendations are likely coming from someone with different needs. YouTube avoids the problem since there is no financial risk involved in making a choice, and decent quality content isn't too hard to find. (To give you an idea of what I mean: I live in a city of half a million people. The public library system's most advanced text on electronics is an old edition of the ARRL Handbook. The rest are projects books directed towards amateurs. Book sellers aren't much better since few want to stock technical titles. University libraries offer much better books, yet they are nearly impossible to borrow during the academic session.)
JasonFruit 6y ago
I could not repair half the things I have learned to repair without Youtube. 100% worth having to look out for manipulative antifeatures, in my book.
- sthnblllII 6y ago
  I dont think thats true. If people stopped using youtube people would upload to other sites. Google hasnt taught you how to repair anything.
  - JasonFruit 6y ago
    I don't know why you're being downvoted, because you are obviously right — just like the audience will go where the content is, the content creators will go where they can get an audience.
    - pugworthy 6y ago
      Probably downvoted because of that last sentence.
      - JasonFruit 6y ago
        But that's actually a good insight: it isn't Google that has taught me anything, but people, who happened to use Google's properties to distribute knowledge. Any other service would be as good, if the people chose to use it.
- toast0 6y ago
  I'm happy for the content in any form, but a bunch of things would be easier with a wall of text and a couple pictures I could scroll through. Don't forget to like and subscribe and support me on patreon.
  - flukus 6y ago
    This is certainly true when I want to sit down and repair something. There are other times when I just want to see what's involved and how complicated something will be first, maybe have dinner at the same time. This sort of higher level overview is where I find youtube fits in well, same for programming related videos. I wish there were more hybrid approaches, video with the accompanying wall of text.
2OEH8eoCRo0 6y ago
Newpipe -> disable comments, disable recommendations. I only see what I search for and I don't have to see the opinions of morons in the comments.
crocodiletears 6y ago
I stopped using youtube regularly a while back. It's still good for how-to videos, and niche searches. Useless for current events.
gnulinux 6y ago
Agreed but youtube has some valuable content, e.g. if you're into chess, there are some irreplaceably good videos out there. The way I use them is via youtube-dl.

by swiley 6y ago

cbozeman 6y ago

There's entirely too much good stuff on YouTube to ignore. I learn so much there, all for free.

Syonyk 6y ago
But what are the opportunity costs of learning stuff on YouTube, especially if you're watching hours of content? There is good stuff in there - don't get me wrong. It's just that the good stuff you want to find is often quite hidden, and I've on occasion spent more time trying to find some video that actually shows a tricky part of some bit of equipment maintenance than it would take to just do things the slow way (think "If you know the exact sequence of steps, you can slip the alternator out this hole between the engine and suspension - or you can just unbolt the exhaust and lower the alternator out that way" sort of tasks - if it takes longer to find a video with the steps clearly displayed than to just drop the exhaust, you've taken longer). I've also found that YouTube leads to a very poor, surface understanding of most issues - and this isn't the fault of YouTube specifically, it's just a limit of video. If I want to learn about a new topic, I'll typically try to find three or so books on it and read those. A single book can have biases and misunderstandings, but by the time you've read a few, it's usually clear enough what the consensus is. Does it take more time than an hour or two video? Certainly. But I also get a far, far better understanding of the material (which, if it's an area I care to learn about, is probably useful) than I would through videos. Plus, I use an awful lot less data in the process. I'm perfectly happy to be called a curmudgeon or such with regards to my preferences for text and images over video, and there may be part of it that's true - but I've weighed video versus the alternatives, and outside entertainment (which there's certainly some value in), I find video coming up wanting. Also, books don't keep (buy this!) interrupting the content (buy that!) to feed me ads for (vote for this person because their opponent eats babies!) whatever happens to (watch this movie!) be paying the best rates (check out this new online bank and stock trading app!) at the moment.
- sokoloff 6y ago
  I feel like I often have time saved on almost exactly the situation you described. Changing the alternator on our Honda CR-V, there's a method to remove the fan and fan support and pull the alternator out the front of the car and top instead of doing a lot more disassembly on the front of the engine (side of the car) and draining the coolant. I wouldn't have thought to do it that way if I hadn't been in the habit of watching 2 or 3 videos of new-to-me car repairs. I find myself watching zero mass-market television and a lot more YouTube (tech, electronics, machining, mostly) and think it a lot better value for entertainment time spent than TV ever was. (Sure, it's not as dense as reading a technical book, but after a day of work, I'm more up for the casual experience.)
- cbozeman 6y ago
  I consider YouTube a tool. It gives me, as you pointed out, surface level knowledge. Once I'm armed with that, I can go dig deeper and find the books or resources I need to gain expert-level knowledge.
- II2II 6y ago
  > I'm perfectly happy to be called a curmudgeon or such with regards to my preferences for text and images over video, and there may be part of it that's true - but I've weighed video versus the alternatives, and outside entertainment (which there's certainly some value in), I find video coming up wanting. I agree with your preference for books, but I am going to add a caveat: the quality of books varies considerably, with a good video being better than a mediocre book. That was not much of a problem when I lived in a big city. It was easy to walk into a bookstore or library to pick out something of value. Living in a small city limits the options. Buying online means buying sight unseen. In the worse case, ratings can be misleading. In the best case, recommendations are likely coming from someone with different needs. YouTube avoids the problem since there is no financial risk involved in making a choice, and decent quality content isn't too hard to find. (To give you an idea of what I mean: I live in a city of half a million people. The public library system's most advanced text on electronics is an old edition of the ARRL Handbook. The rest are projects books directed towards amateurs. Book sellers aren't much better since few want to stock technical titles. University libraries offer much better books, yet they are nearly impossible to borrow during the academic session.)

JasonFruit 6y ago

I could not repair half the things I have learned to repair without Youtube. 100% worth having to look out for manipulative antifeatures, in my book.

sthnblllII 6y ago
I dont think thats true. If people stopped using youtube people would upload to other sites. Google hasnt taught you how to repair anything.
- JasonFruit 6y ago
  I don't know why you're being downvoted, because you are obviously right — just like the audience will go where the content is, the content creators will go where they can get an audience.
  - pugworthy 6y ago
    Probably downvoted because of that last sentence.
    - JasonFruit 6y ago
      But that's actually a good insight: it isn't Google that has taught me anything, but people, who happened to use Google's properties to distribute knowledge. Any other service would be as good, if the people chose to use it.
toast0 6y ago
I'm happy for the content in any form, but a bunch of things would be easier with a wall of text and a couple pictures I could scroll through. Don't forget to like and subscribe and support me on patreon.
- flukus 6y ago
  This is certainly true when I want to sit down and repair something. There are other times when I just want to see what's involved and how complicated something will be first, maybe have dinner at the same time. This sort of higher level overview is where I find youtube fits in well, same for programming related videos. I wish there were more hybrid approaches, video with the accompanying wall of text.

2OEH8eoCRo0 6y ago

Newpipe -> disable comments, disable recommendations. I only see what I search for and I don't have to see the opinions of morons in the comments.

crocodiletears 6y ago

I stopped using youtube regularly a while back. It's still good for how-to videos, and niche searches. Useless for current events.

gnulinux 6y ago

Agreed but youtube has some valuable content, e.g. if you're into chess, there are some irreplaceably good videos out there. The way I use them is via youtube-dl.