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People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. - commonly attributed to Orwell

savanaly 6y ago
...But only because there are other rough men ready to violence against them. What was proposed was getting rid of rough men willing to do violence, not rough men willing to do violence on our side only.
- trentnix 6y ago
  What was proposed was wealth distribution. Wealth distribution necessarily requires taking from one person and giving their wealth to others. If history is any indicator, this can only be accomplished through the threats or administration of violence. How much violence is necessary to create your violence-free utopia?
intrepidhero 6y ago
I strongly disagree. If some level of violence is necessary to ensure peace, the people entrusted with the power to inflict said violence should be compassionate and wise humans not, "rough men". And at the same time we should be putting our resources to work at lowering that necessary level of violence.
- moolcool 6y ago
  Beware "rough men" who project themselves be "compassionate and wise", lest you end up with a John McCain-type who says all the right things at home, but then wants to kill people overseas for profit.
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    For a lot of us, what McCain said (and even more, concretely acted on) at home for the bulk of his political career wasn't any better than his position on foreign adventures.
    - moolcool 6y ago
      Oh I agree, but during the Trump years he (and even W. Bush) were lionized as these "class act" figures just because they didn't tweet recklessly, as if there's any class to their foreign policy.
      - dragonwriter 6y ago
        Well, yeah, Trump did an amazing job of lowering the bar.
atoav 6y ago
And others die in their bed because rough men stand ready to do violence on someones behalf. Maybe we don't need rough men, but men who won't let themselves be sold as fools for yet another geopolitical proxy war. A war with questionable (and arguably even negative!) results for our all safety. Because if we look at the last 3 decades of war, I am not too sure if the net result made the world a safer place. Yeah some geoplitical or monetary interests got defended, a lot of people made money, a lot of people lost their lives, many war crimes fuled a entirely new generation of terrorists, but if this would have been about saving lifes the money would have been better invested in healthcare or the prevention of future pandemics.

savanaly 6y ago

...But only because there are other rough men ready to violence against them. What was proposed was getting rid of rough men willing to do violence, not rough men willing to do violence on our side only.

trentnix 6y ago
What was proposed was wealth distribution. Wealth distribution necessarily requires taking from one person and giving their wealth to others. If history is any indicator, this can only be accomplished through the threats or administration of violence. How much violence is necessary to create your violence-free utopia?

intrepidhero 6y ago

I strongly disagree. If some level of violence is necessary to ensure peace, the people entrusted with the power to inflict said violence should be compassionate and wise humans not, "rough men". And at the same time we should be putting our resources to work at lowering that necessary level of violence.

moolcool 6y ago
Beware "rough men" who project themselves be "compassionate and wise", lest you end up with a John McCain-type who says all the right things at home, but then wants to kill people overseas for profit.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  For a lot of us, what McCain said (and even more, concretely acted on) at home for the bulk of his political career wasn't any better than his position on foreign adventures.
  - moolcool 6y ago
    Oh I agree, but during the Trump years he (and even W. Bush) were lionized as these "class act" figures just because they didn't tweet recklessly, as if there's any class to their foreign policy.
    - dragonwriter 6y ago
      Well, yeah, Trump did an amazing job of lowering the bar.

atoav 6y ago

And others die in their bed because rough men stand ready to do violence on someones behalf. Maybe we don't need rough men, but men who won't let themselves be sold as fools for yet another geopolitical proxy war. A war with questionable (and arguably even negative!) results for our all safety. Because if we look at the last 3 decades of war, I am not too sure if the net result made the world a safer place. Yeah some geoplitical or monetary interests got defended, a lot of people made money, a lot of people lost their lives, many war crimes fuled a entirely new generation of terrorists, but if this would have been about saving lifes the money would have been better invested in healthcare or the prevention of future pandemics.