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I don't like the way bitcoin mining wastes energy, but mining gold certainly has an environmental impact. Most of the machinery is currently powered by fossil f

I don't like the way bitcoin mining wastes energy, but mining gold certainly has an environmental impact. Most of the machinery is currently powered by fossil fuels, and most of the gold isn't used for useful applications AFAIK. I'm glad some cryptos are moving to proof of stake, and I wonder if bitcoin will be able to make that transition too, or if the miners have too much to lose to let that happen?

tome 6y ago
> mining gold certainly has an environmental impact Can you quantify the environmental impact of gold mining? How does it compare to the CO2 output of a medium-sized country?
- saalweachter 6y ago
  Looks like 0.8 tonnes / troy oz? https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/news-insights/blog/greenhouse-gas-and-gold-mines-nearly-1-ton-of-co2-emitted-per-ounce-of-gold-produced-in-2019 https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/news-insights... Given 3000 tons of gold mined per year, that should be roughly 70 megatons of CO2 / year. [I am pleased to report that this falls squarely in my previous estimate of 30-150 megatons / year that was based on the cost to mine gold, the cost of fuel, and the CO2 emitted by fuel.]
  - tome 6y ago
    - Fossil CO2 Emissions (2016) 35,753 megatons globally - so gold mining is 0.2% of global CO2 emissions!? - Bitcoin mining energy use is at least 78TWh annually - 480-500g of carbon dioxide produced for every kWh consumed - So mining bitcoin produces 40 megatons of CO2 per year, which is the same order of magnitude of gold mining. - And mining bitcoin is 0.1% of global CO2 emissions (I would be grateful if someone would check my calculation) References: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/mar/10/bitcoin-rise-could-leave-carbon-footprint-size-london https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/mar/10/bitcoin-r... https://www.worldometers.info/co2-emissions/ https://www.worldometers.info/co2-emissions/
    - saalweachter 6y ago
      Bringing this around to carbon taxes, a $20 / ton carbon tax would raise the cost of producing gold by about $16 / troy ounce, and the cost of electricity by around 1 cents / kWh. Googling says it's currently about 700 kWh / BTC transaction, which would create a "carbon surcharge" of about $7 / transaction.
    - saalweachter 6y ago
      > so gold mining is 0.2% of global CO2 emissions!? Looks like iron & steel is 7.2%. Non-ferrous metals are listed at 0.7%, so gold is ~1/3 of the CO2 of non-ferrous metal production. Paper ("and pulp") is 0.6%. https://ourworldindata.org/emissions-by-sector https://ourworldindata.org/emissions-by-sector
      - beiller 6y ago
        Wow so all that junk mail I get in the mail every day is dwarfing the co2 emissions of Bitcoin?
        saalweachter 6y ago
        I wouldn't say dwarfed but the answer looks to be ... maybe? 5.8 million tons of junk mail each year in the US. Mass of CO2 to mass of paper looks to be 10.5x for new paper and 3x for recycled, so depending on whether junk mail is primarily recycled or new, that is somewhere between 17 and 60 megatons of CO2 / year.
- beiller 6y ago
  This here is the problem. Gold does use a lot of CO2 yes (heavy equipment construction and operation), but that's not even the worst thing. Mining literally is poisoning water, and destroying very large ecosystems. And carbon tax won't stop that. And 90% of gold is speculative (if you include jewelry).

tome 6y ago

> mining gold certainly has an environmental impact Can you quantify the environmental impact of gold mining? How does it compare to the CO2 output of a medium-sized country?

saalweachter 6y ago
Looks like 0.8 tonnes / troy oz? https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/news-insights/blog/greenhouse-gas-and-gold-mines-nearly-1-ton-of-co2-emitted-per-ounce-of-gold-produced-in-2019 https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/news-insights... Given 3000 tons of gold mined per year, that should be roughly 70 megatons of CO2 / year. [I am pleased to report that this falls squarely in my previous estimate of 30-150 megatons / year that was based on the cost to mine gold, the cost of fuel, and the CO2 emitted by fuel.]
- tome 6y ago
  - Fossil CO2 Emissions (2016) 35,753 megatons globally - so gold mining is 0.2% of global CO2 emissions!? - Bitcoin mining energy use is at least 78TWh annually - 480-500g of carbon dioxide produced for every kWh consumed - So mining bitcoin produces 40 megatons of CO2 per year, which is the same order of magnitude of gold mining. - And mining bitcoin is 0.1% of global CO2 emissions (I would be grateful if someone would check my calculation) References: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/mar/10/bitcoin-rise-could-leave-carbon-footprint-size-london https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/mar/10/bitcoin-r... https://www.worldometers.info/co2-emissions/ https://www.worldometers.info/co2-emissions/
  - saalweachter 6y ago
    Bringing this around to carbon taxes, a $20 / ton carbon tax would raise the cost of producing gold by about $16 / troy ounce, and the cost of electricity by around 1 cents / kWh. Googling says it's currently about 700 kWh / BTC transaction, which would create a "carbon surcharge" of about $7 / transaction.
  - saalweachter 6y ago
    > so gold mining is 0.2% of global CO2 emissions!? Looks like iron & steel is 7.2%. Non-ferrous metals are listed at 0.7%, so gold is ~1/3 of the CO2 of non-ferrous metal production. Paper ("and pulp") is 0.6%. https://ourworldindata.org/emissions-by-sector https://ourworldindata.org/emissions-by-sector
    - beiller 6y ago
      Wow so all that junk mail I get in the mail every day is dwarfing the co2 emissions of Bitcoin?
      - saalweachter 6y ago
        I wouldn't say dwarfed but the answer looks to be ... maybe? 5.8 million tons of junk mail each year in the US. Mass of CO2 to mass of paper looks to be 10.5x for new paper and 3x for recycled, so depending on whether junk mail is primarily recycled or new, that is somewhere between 17 and 60 megatons of CO2 / year.
beiller 6y ago
This here is the problem. Gold does use a lot of CO2 yes (heavy equipment construction and operation), but that's not even the worst thing. Mining literally is poisoning water, and destroying very large ecosystems. And carbon tax won't stop that. And 90% of gold is speculative (if you include jewelry).