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The arguments that both sides use to support their positions don’t recognize such a limitation, so why should the middle ground you propose be where we draw the
by abduhl 6y ago
The arguments that both sides use to support their positions don’t recognize such a limitation, so why should the middle ground you propose be where we draw the line? People opposed to masks claim an infringement in their rights. People in favor of masks all the time claim it’s a small price to pay for the greater good.
As an aside, it’s interesting to view the masks in light of people’s opinions on Muslim countries’ head covering requirements for women. People against them say it’s an infringement on women’s rights. People for them say it’s a small price to pay for the greater good.
- whatshisface 6y agoThe case for the greater good is a lot stronger in one case than the other.
- abduhl 6y agoYou're talking about the Muslim head covering requirement here, right? Because it seems to both protect from COVID and protect from whatever harm the Muslim countries think women showing a little skin will cause. Do you think that Western countries should also ban women from being outside without a head covering (for the greater good, of course)? If not, why not? If it is because it's an infringement on women's rights, why do their rights matter more than anyone else's? Do you see how the whole thing has become emotional and why having the mask argument is a bit silly at this point?
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- whatshisface 6y ago>whatever harm the Muslim countries think women showing a little skin will cause Is there really a case for that? I thought that was just something the authorities made up. In contrast, COVID is actually real. I would find it pretty surprising if they were offering justification for their cultural norms on a factual or material basis.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- abduhl 6y agoIt's an interesting claim you make about the authorities making something up. Compare your views on COVID mask usage and the changing requirements/recommendations from the authorities (CDC, WHO, whatever your local health organization is) with Muslim countries' "made up" justifications. At least the Muslim countries are consistent.
- whatshisface 6y agoMasks prevent aerosol transmission independently of whatever the official guidance happens to be today. That's a material, factual basis for wanting people to wear them - independent of whatever cultural norm different people happen to adopt around it. There isn't a corresponding basis for those cultural norms in Muslim countries, which are self-sustaining cultural norms with no material condition at their core.
- abduhl 6y agoWell it seems like you've shifted the goal posts now to me. The original conversation was about whether a certain government mandate (read: official guidance) is supportable by a "greater good" argument and now you've changed it to a question of whether or not it's supportable by (what you deem) a "material, factual" basis. In fact, you've tried to remove the government mandate part from the entire conversation! I'm sure the Muslim countries think that their basis is just as material and factual as the COVID science. I don't know why you're arguing here: head coverings are de facto masks as long as they cover the face, you should be in favor of mandatory use. It aligns with your material, factual basis. You've yet to articulate a reason why a head covering mandate is a bridge too far. Keep in mind that men are more susceptible to COVID than women and so there may be an argument to be made that constraining women will help to protect the most vulnerable sex (men). I say all this to emphasize that public policy debates are not so easy when both sides come to the table in bad faith and with an agenda.
- antibuddy 6y agoIt's not, but it's still a false equivalent.