My attitude about this is, if it's not really the person's fault (ie. learning bad dev hygiene from bad teams) and they want to continue as an engineer then the

My attitude about this is, if it's not really the person's fault (ie. learning bad dev hygiene from bad teams) and they want to continue as an engineer then they should make an attempt. There are of course people who at the end of the day just don't have a knack for this stuff, and in that case, I certainly agree.