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Just to clarify, we’ve done major releases in 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, and now early 2021. We also released a second product (Sublime Merge) in 2018 and did a ma

by wbond 6y ago

Just to clarify, we’ve done major releases in 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, and now early 2021. We also released a second product (Sublime Merge) in 2018 and did a major release of that in 2020. There haven’t been any significant gaps in our release cadence since before I joined the company in 2016. That said, the current dev cycle has been a little longer because people do expect more from major version releases. We’ve got a large collection of new features, improvements and bug fixes coming with this release. We’ve addressed over 600 issues on GitHub in the current release, added some pretty significant changes, and laid the foundation for more to come. IMO, it is by far the most significant release we’ve ever done. We’ve also got some changes planned to help shorten our release cycles moving forward!

hnrodey 6y ago
Do you have any options for a reduced cost license? Ideally I get enough value from the tool that I'd like to contribute financially but the current cost is (for me) too high. Perhaps I should just continue with the occasional nag popup. I really enjoy using Sublime Text for some parts my daily workflow yet that equates for me using like 5% of the actual functionality. I don't actively write code within ST but use it for stuff surrounding my coding workflow. Nonetheless, thanks for the product. I really enjoy it. edit: lol downvotes because I'm trying to give someone money
- wedowhatwedo 6y ago
  I bought the product in 2015. I don't remember the cost but let's assume it was $80. (EDIT, I just looked and it was $70 at the time) That's $16 a year. If you use even 5% of the functionality, isn't it worth that? I don't know what country you are from and there my be economic differences but sublime text has been one of the best software purchases I've made. It's worth every cent. If you don't feel it's worth $80, you can use Visual Studio Code for free.
  - ipaddr 6y ago
    Are you offering to purchase this product for the parent commentor? Unless you are offering to pay for it because the cost is so little I'm not sure your rebuttal holds water. $80.00 US is a lot for an editor that doesn't provide updates.
    - dralley 6y ago
      It's a one-time fee. Personally, I still felt it was worth it.
    - therealdrag0 6y ago
      I don’t understand this whole threads obsession with updates. ST has always seemed like a finished product to me. Always does what I expect and is stable. I’m happy for paying the price I did for the features I got at that time.
    - wedowhatwedo 6y ago
      I completely disagree. I didn't pay $80 for an editor that doesn't provide updates. I paid $70 for 5 years use of an editor that has updated a major version and a few minor versions and that I've installed on many workstations and VMs through the years. I use it every day so I'm glad I paid. The parent commentor said they are already using it and will continue to do so without paying. Neither of you need to pay for the editor if you don't like it. Just use a different one.
- wedowhatwedo 6y ago
  No, the downvotes are because you aren't willing to pay a very fair price for the product and have admitted you depend on it and use it without paying and will continue to do so.
danpalmer 6y ago
Instead of taking 2 years to close 600 issues, why not ship a release each month with just a handful addressed? I think plugin developers are more likely to keep their plugins maintained if it looks like Sublime Text is alive. I'd much rather pay $50 a year for ~monthly releases than $70 every 2-3 years for one release and a few bug fixes.
- wbond 6y ago
  Part of our development pace is that we are a small team (six engineers), bootstrapped, maintaining multiple products, and looking to do things in a way that fits with our vision for the products. We want to build products that are around for the long haul – Sublime Text has been around for 15 years. We'd rather focus on quality and performance than adding lots of features. We are doing a big release because our current licensing scheme requires a "major version" release for paid updates. If we did a release once a month, they would all be trivial features, and wouldn't justify a major version bump. For license holders, we've actually been shipping new dev builds every one to two weeks. However, since this is a major release, it has some very significant changes that need testing, refining and polishing. I don't think anyone in their right mind would ship a half-finished product and call it a major release, so we've been doing the work that shows it is a major release. The downside of bigger releases is that sometimes they end up dragging on a little longer than you want, and we'd rather uphold our vision for the product than have a release done a few months earlier. As I mentioned in my post above, we've got some changes coming that will help address the "major version" issue and allow us to take on a faster release cycle. That said, I'm not sure I agree that new releases once a month are a good fit for the majority of users. We do, however, provide dev builds for users who do like seeing changes quickly. We've got a super active group of some of the more prolific plugin developers that we interact with on a daily basis on our public Discord server. They definitely provide a lot of feedback and we make a point of listening to what the have to say. The reality of it is that most open source developers wax and wane in their development work. The ones who stick with projects for years and years tend to either do open source work related to their day job, or are at least partially employed to work on the open source work. Others will get an itch, scratch it, share it, improve it and then be satisfied.
imdsm 6y ago
I know you have your reasons and I won't question your capacity or vision, but I'd definitely be more interested in an active 'Sublime Text' that is maintained on an ongoing basis than the current major release model you have. Back when ST started to get popular, you were up against Notepad++, TextEdit2, Visual Studio perhaps, and others. Now there's Atom and VSCode that are actively maintained and have active communities. I doubt I'll use ST4, but I wish you all the best, but I do think the model is wrong.
- wbond 6y ago
  The “active” version of Sublime Text are our development builds. We’ve just been releasing those discreetly during this current dev cycle since we’ve got a huge user base and wanted a smaller group to test some of our bigger changes on. For our future dev cycles, our dev builds will be returning to our site.
jrochkind1 6y ago
Interesting. As a long-time ST user, I was unaware that the level of ongoing work on ST is what you say it is. I'm not interested in using a discord server to keep up. But a monthly blog post with "what's happened in ST this month" might go a long way for letting users understand that it is still alive. The monthly post could even include things happening in the plugin ecosystem, interesting new plugins or popular plugins with new releases. But just 2-3 paragraphs a month would suffice. As it is, I go to the ST website and it looks like it's stagnated, I see no sign of life. I'm not interested in intensively following dev releases, but I am interested in every once in a while checking out what's been going on that I might want to know about, and seeing evidence that ST is still alive. I don't know for sure how typical I am, but based on this HN comment thread, I suspect I'm not alone.
signal11 6y ago
Maybe a Twitter account that focuses on what's new and what's coming down the pipe? Most people don't really follow forums. The current Twitter account last tweeted about Sublime Text in March 2019, I think -- exactly 2 years ago. I guess the blog could also work, especially if it auto-publishes to social media, but of late that too, like the Twitter feed, has been mostly about Sublime Merge -- whereas I care a lot more about Sublime Text. I think Sublime is really good and has lots of value even in a world with VS Code, but it's important to ensure people inclined to giving it a go sense that the project is ticking along well.
Mawr 6y ago
I've wanted to buy Sublime Text for a long time, but I couldn't justify it due to: > A license is valid for Sublime Text 3 [...]. Future major versions, such as Sublime Text 4, will be a paid upgrade. > [...] an upgrade fee will be required for Sublime Text 4. I'd feel pretty bad if I bought ST3 and the next day you'd decide to release ST4 and now I'd have to pay for an upgrade. Why not just stick to the terms on the buy page: > Personal licenses are a once off purchase, and come with 3 years of updates. After 3 years, an upgrade will be required to receive further updates. Why not: > [...] come with 3 years of updates *regardless of version*. Then I wouldn't have to worry about a new release being right around the corner. As it's now I can only feel comfortable buying ST when a new major version comes out, which sucks. I could have bought it years ago. I understand that providing release dates of future major versions can be hard but could you at least show the cost of the upgrade? Sublime is great btw, I'll definitely make a purchase once ST4 comes out <3
- tester89 6y ago
  I think that’s a clarity issue on the page. They stated several times in the discord that buying an ST3 licence now covers ST4 as well.
placidpanda 6y ago
Since there were a lot of people clamoring for more updates, subscription licensing, etc. I just wanted to add some volume to the opposing viewpoint. I registered my copy of sublime text maybe 8 years ago. Before that I had used Notepad++ for years as well. I love that sublime is a thing that I paid for once and I can trust that it will always fundamentally work without problems for my basic use cases. I never have to think about "oh well I'm not doing so much text editing at the moment, maybe I'll turn it off for now..." like I do with some other subscriptions. I'm not worried it won't work or will degrade because it seems stable as a rock. I primarily used Windows when I bought it, and I've been Mac only for 4 years, and it's still with me. Sublime text is special and I love what you guys have done! And I appreciate that for my $80 or whatever it was, I can use this thing the way I use it right now and never worry about it again. Honestly, I think people are being reactionary from how common abandonware is in the open source community (obviously sublime is closed source, but people who use sublime use a lot of open source), as well as the long delay between ST2 and ST3. I remember plugins with docs that said "I have abandoned this project because Sublime Text is dead" when ST3 was still in beta. It is... probably not great that when I check the About window on my copy of SublimeText, it says Copyright 2019 and the changelog on your website says October 2019. It is useful for a customer facing product to not look dead, but this is completely possible without being forced to ship updates or features on a regular basis. Just be mindful of customer perceptions and what the touch points are and be patient and consistent within your bandwidth.

by wbond 6y ago

hnrodey 6y ago

Do you have any options for a reduced cost license? Ideally I get enough value from the tool that I'd like to contribute financially but the current cost is (for me) too high. Perhaps I should just continue with the occasional nag popup. I really enjoy using Sublime Text for some parts my daily workflow yet that equates for me using like 5% of the actual functionality. I don't actively write code within ST but use it for stuff surrounding my coding workflow. Nonetheless, thanks for the product. I really enjoy it. edit: lol downvotes because I'm trying to give someone money

wedowhatwedo 6y ago
I bought the product in 2015. I don't remember the cost but let's assume it was $80. (EDIT, I just looked and it was $70 at the time) That's $16 a year. If you use even 5% of the functionality, isn't it worth that? I don't know what country you are from and there my be economic differences but sublime text has been one of the best software purchases I've made. It's worth every cent. If you don't feel it's worth $80, you can use Visual Studio Code for free.
- ipaddr 6y ago
  Are you offering to purchase this product for the parent commentor? Unless you are offering to pay for it because the cost is so little I'm not sure your rebuttal holds water. $80.00 US is a lot for an editor that doesn't provide updates.
  - dralley 6y ago
    It's a one-time fee. Personally, I still felt it was worth it.
  - therealdrag0 6y ago
    I don’t understand this whole threads obsession with updates. ST has always seemed like a finished product to me. Always does what I expect and is stable. I’m happy for paying the price I did for the features I got at that time.
  - wedowhatwedo 6y ago
    I completely disagree. I didn't pay $80 for an editor that doesn't provide updates. I paid $70 for 5 years use of an editor that has updated a major version and a few minor versions and that I've installed on many workstations and VMs through the years. I use it every day so I'm glad I paid. The parent commentor said they are already using it and will continue to do so without paying. Neither of you need to pay for the editor if you don't like it. Just use a different one.
wedowhatwedo 6y ago
No, the downvotes are because you aren't willing to pay a very fair price for the product and have admitted you depend on it and use it without paying and will continue to do so.

danpalmer 6y ago

Instead of taking 2 years to close 600 issues, why not ship a release each month with just a handful addressed? I think plugin developers are more likely to keep their plugins maintained if it looks like Sublime Text is alive. I'd much rather pay $50 a year for ~monthly releases than $70 every 2-3 years for one release and a few bug fixes.

wbond 6y ago
Part of our development pace is that we are a small team (six engineers), bootstrapped, maintaining multiple products, and looking to do things in a way that fits with our vision for the products. We want to build products that are around for the long haul – Sublime Text has been around for 15 years. We'd rather focus on quality and performance than adding lots of features. We are doing a big release because our current licensing scheme requires a "major version" release for paid updates. If we did a release once a month, they would all be trivial features, and wouldn't justify a major version bump. For license holders, we've actually been shipping new dev builds every one to two weeks. However, since this is a major release, it has some very significant changes that need testing, refining and polishing. I don't think anyone in their right mind would ship a half-finished product and call it a major release, so we've been doing the work that shows it is a major release. The downside of bigger releases is that sometimes they end up dragging on a little longer than you want, and we'd rather uphold our vision for the product than have a release done a few months earlier. As I mentioned in my post above, we've got some changes coming that will help address the "major version" issue and allow us to take on a faster release cycle. That said, I'm not sure I agree that new releases once a month are a good fit for the majority of users. We do, however, provide dev builds for users who do like seeing changes quickly. We've got a super active group of some of the more prolific plugin developers that we interact with on a daily basis on our public Discord server. They definitely provide a lot of feedback and we make a point of listening to what the have to say. The reality of it is that most open source developers wax and wane in their development work. The ones who stick with projects for years and years tend to either do open source work related to their day job, or are at least partially employed to work on the open source work. Others will get an itch, scratch it, share it, improve it and then be satisfied.

imdsm 6y ago

I know you have your reasons and I won't question your capacity or vision, but I'd definitely be more interested in an active 'Sublime Text' that is maintained on an ongoing basis than the current major release model you have. Back when ST started to get popular, you were up against Notepad++, TextEdit2, Visual Studio perhaps, and others. Now there's Atom and VSCode that are actively maintained and have active communities. I doubt I'll use ST4, but I wish you all the best, but I do think the model is wrong.

wbond 6y ago
The “active” version of Sublime Text are our development builds. We’ve just been releasing those discreetly during this current dev cycle since we’ve got a huge user base and wanted a smaller group to test some of our bigger changes on. For our future dev cycles, our dev builds will be returning to our site.

jrochkind1 6y ago

Interesting. As a long-time ST user, I was unaware that the level of ongoing work on ST is what you say it is. I'm not interested in using a discord server to keep up. But a monthly blog post with "what's happened in ST this month" might go a long way for letting users understand that it is still alive. The monthly post could even include things happening in the plugin ecosystem, interesting new plugins or popular plugins with new releases. But just 2-3 paragraphs a month would suffice. As it is, I go to the ST website and it looks like it's stagnated, I see no sign of life. I'm not interested in intensively following dev releases, but I am interested in every once in a while checking out what's been going on that I might want to know about, and seeing evidence that ST is still alive. I don't know for sure how typical I am, but based on this HN comment thread, I suspect I'm not alone.

signal11 6y ago

Maybe a Twitter account that focuses on what's new and what's coming down the pipe? Most people don't really follow forums. The current Twitter account last tweeted about Sublime Text in March 2019, I think -- exactly 2 years ago. I guess the blog could also work, especially if it auto-publishes to social media, but of late that too, like the Twitter feed, has been mostly about Sublime Merge -- whereas I care a lot more about Sublime Text. I think Sublime is really good and has lots of value even in a world with VS Code, but it's important to ensure people inclined to giving it a go sense that the project is ticking along well.

Mawr 6y ago

I've wanted to buy Sublime Text for a long time, but I couldn't justify it due to: > A license is valid for Sublime Text 3 [...]. Future major versions, such as Sublime Text 4, will be a paid upgrade. > [...] an upgrade fee will be required for Sublime Text 4. I'd feel pretty bad if I bought ST3 and the next day you'd decide to release ST4 and now I'd have to pay for an upgrade. Why not just stick to the terms on the buy page: > Personal licenses are a once off purchase, and come with 3 years of updates. After 3 years, an upgrade will be required to receive further updates. Why not: > [...] come with 3 years of updates *regardless of version*. Then I wouldn't have to worry about a new release being right around the corner. As it's now I can only feel comfortable buying ST when a new major version comes out, which sucks. I could have bought it years ago. I understand that providing release dates of future major versions can be hard but could you at least show the cost of the upgrade? Sublime is great btw, I'll definitely make a purchase once ST4 comes out <3

tester89 6y ago
I think that’s a clarity issue on the page. They stated several times in the discord that buying an ST3 licence now covers ST4 as well.

placidpanda 6y ago

Since there were a lot of people clamoring for more updates, subscription licensing, etc. I just wanted to add some volume to the opposing viewpoint. I registered my copy of sublime text maybe 8 years ago. Before that I had used Notepad++ for years as well. I love that sublime is a thing that I paid for once and I can trust that it will always fundamentally work without problems for my basic use cases. I never have to think about "oh well I'm not doing so much text editing at the moment, maybe I'll turn it off for now..." like I do with some other subscriptions. I'm not worried it won't work or will degrade because it seems stable as a rock. I primarily used Windows when I bought it, and I've been Mac only for 4 years, and it's still with me. Sublime text is special and I love what you guys have done! And I appreciate that for my $80 or whatever it was, I can use this thing the way I use it right now and never worry about it again. Honestly, I think people are being reactionary from how common abandonware is in the open source community (obviously sublime is closed source, but people who use sublime use a lot of open source), as well as the long delay between ST2 and ST3. I remember plugins with docs that said "I have abandoned this project because Sublime Text is dead" when ST3 was still in beta. It is... probably not great that when I check the About window on my copy of SublimeText, it says Copyright 2019 and the changelog on your website says October 2019. It is useful for a customer facing product to not look dead, but this is completely possible without being forced to ship updates or features on a regular basis. Just be mindful of customer perceptions and what the touch points are and be patient and consistent within your bandwidth.