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Arm says latest Huawei chip not subject to US export controls
- secfirstmd 6y agoGreat place then for a backdoor.
- FpUser 6y agoThe US might do what it did before with ASML. Politely ask for the Dutch government not to approve sale.
- nirv 6y agoI'm unable to find any source link besides Chinese websites.
- boringg 6y agoWeird, it's not like the Chinese government would try and push a narrative out into the world would it? [heavy sarcasm]
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- yorwba 6y agoThat's because the source is > a staff member told Yicai Global at the Arm Vision Day That was March 30. Other sites I could find also credit Yicai. So if you want independent confirmation, you'll have to wait until someone else asks ARM, or they publish a press release. (Also, props to the submitter for finding the original source.)
- La1n 6y agohttps://technode.com/2019/09/25/arm-restores-ties-with-huawei-claiming-its-technology-uk-originated/ https://technode.com/2019/09/25/arm-restores-ties-with-huawe... 2019 article that has the follow quote >Huawei will have access to the company’s latest Armv9 architecture that may come out in the next few years, and its usage of the current Armv8 architecture is also not affected, said Liang Quan, marketing director at Arm China.
- TazeTSchnitzel 6y agoHow would it benefit them if they can't manufacture chips?
- pjc50 6y agoNot immediately obvious why something designed in the UK and manufactured in Taiwan should be subject to US export controls, but that's the world police for you.
- ddeck 6y agoNon-U.S. chip manufacturers using American chipmaking equipment, intellectual property or design software require a license to sell to entities subject to US export controls. As such, TSMC is subject to them. Huawei was TSMC's number 2 customer prior to the controls announced last year. The article talks about devices manufactured by HiSilicon (a Huawei subsidiary).
- rjzzleep 6y agoMaybe, but they're also using a bunch of China made stuff. Doesn't mean China gets a say on Taiwan exporting stuff to the US. It very much is a world police kind of situation. Also, I would argue in terms of Chipmaking equipment the European part is the part that is non replaceable. For all its complaints about China stealing IP and nobody being able to force it, only the US Department of State can walk into a contract and strongarm countries not to sell things to the people they don't like[1]. But then again its not as black and white since China did indeed steal a lot of TSMC IP (or rather we don't know what they stole, but it's probably a safe bet to assume that they did during their last breach). [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/on-small-business/how-china-made-the-netherlands-question-the-free-market/2020/09/03/e8d3219c-edfb-11ea-bd08-1b10132b458f_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/on-small-business/ho...
- BobbyJo 6y agoI'd say there is a large difference between the portions of the production lines sources from China and those sources from the US. The largest of which is that, for those portions sourced in the US there is no alternative supplier, which is likely how the US is able to enforce such export controls. I think a better way to look at it is: the US is allowing TSMC to use export controlled equipment outside the US, in exchange for TSMC abiding by their restrictions.
- varispeed 6y agoI wish we had a ban on Chinese products in that sectors altogether (also Chinese owned) and had incentives to start the production of parts in the country. I am sick and tired of thinking that even by using networks (which is unavoidable) I will be supporting genocide, forced labour, child labour and other draconian measures Chinese government comes up with.
- Synaesthesia 6y agoYes we should care about human rights. Nobody put a gun to anyones head and forced them to invest in China. They chose to, and were permitted to by the government, who chose to ignore human rights in China when they were far worse, firstly because it was a lucrative opportunity, secondly because they wanted to pressurise the Soviets, whose human rights violations they focused one a huge amount, which is fine, except that worse violations by China were ignored (referring to the 70's, 80's) Now that situation persisted throughout the 90s and today. That said, I don't think this Huawei ban had anything to do with human rights, and everything to do with power.
- nashashmi 6y agoIt had to do with implied connection between huawei and State of China. Almost like it was state controlled.
- whatshisface 6y agoAlmost all Chinese companies are integrated with the Chinese government to that degree.
- varispeed 6y agoThe thing is that as long as people don't see the suffering and exploitation, they'll just turn the blind eye and buy if it is cheap enough. This is very unfortunate. I am not sure also why the tech world seems to be approving this, as whenever I express an opinion that maybe we should step back and rethink what's going on with China, I get a rain of downvotes. Really people are that low? Doesn't matter that someone on the other side of the world is treated worse than animals as long as the money is alright? Such a two faced community - here they pretend to be the champions of equality, employee rights and so on, and then pretend they don't see what's going on elsewhere.
- Reason077 6y agoWhat happens if Nvidia's acquisition of ARM is approved? Wouldn't ARMv9 then become US technology, and subject to US export controls?
- jaywalk 6y agoNvidia has said that Arm's IP will remain registered in the UK. But as an American company, I doubt that would put it out of the reach of US export controls.
- chasil 6y agoAre there legal avenues to Nvidia maintaining ARM as an independent, wholly owned subsidiary that would indeed put it out of reach? From a financial perspective, this is a large market that was suddenly removed from the income statements of TSMC, ARM, and likely many other Western industries.
- jaywalk 6y agoI don't know the answer to that question. But considering the fact that even using chip design software from a US company is enough to get US export controls applied to the chip, I'd guess that there's no way around it.
- bserge 6y agoWhy even buy Huawei consumer devices now... even ignoring the CCP and their bs, Huawei now makes the same stuff as everyone else. Expensive, unrepairable, with locked down software and HiX bloatware. Maybe they do well in the Chinese market, I don't know. The Kirin 980 was pretty damn good (faster and cooler than Exynos and the SD845 of that year) but otherwise, you might as well get a Samsung or whatever.
- BelenusMordred 6y ago> Why even buy Huawei consumer devices now > Huawei now makes the same stuff as everyone else Did you not answer your own question? Why not buy their product if the value is better?
- agloeregrets 6y agoThat was their point, the value isn't better at all. Their product costs the same too. plus you can't get the Play Store out of the box.
- ncann 6y agoI've used the P20 Pro and P30 Pro and their cameras are awesome, almost magical in low light situations. I would have upgraded to the P40 Pro as well if not for the whole Google ecosystem shenanigan.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- Reason077 6y agoMy Huawei 5G router is quite good. E6878-870. Cheapest I could find when I bought it.
- friedman23 6y agoDo you value privacy? I don't think you can claim huawei products are good if privacy is factored into the evaluation.
- blackrock 6y agoHuawei should just dump ARM. And go all in with RISC-V.
- blackrock 6y agoWhy is this idea getting downvoted? This is a legitimate situation. Why should Huawei continue to financially support ARM? When their legal usage of the ARM IP is now on shaky ground, just because some president can easily revoke their privilege to use it. I say fck it! Burn down their IP with ARM. Billions of dollars wasted, and go all in with RISC-V. At least this way, they can at least control their own future, and create an alternate and independent China technology IP system.
- throwaway4good 6y agoAs others have mentioned the challenge for Huawei/HiSilicon is not the design but the chip fabrication. Probably HiSilicon has the capabilities of designing a chip from scratch based on RISC-V or another ISA that is cutting edge. I have seen rumours that Huawei may use Samsung as fab? I don't quite understand why Samsung would not be under the same constraints as TSMC. But perhaps the boycot of Huawei was more due to a deal between the Trump administration and the Taiwan government rather than an actual legal constraint. Much in the same manner as the US succesfully has lobbied for Huawei bans in most of the Western world. https://www.sammobile.com/news/samsung-manufacture-huawei-5nm-kirin-9000l-processor/ https://www.sammobile.com/news/samsung-manufacture-huawei-5n... Samsung could manufacture Huawei’s next 5nm Kirin processor A new report coming out of China claims that Huawei’s next 5nm chipset, the Kirin 9000L, will be made by Samsung Foundry.
- sudosysgen 6y agoIt's probably just politics, I think the US might find it more difficult to threaten to sanction South Korea. Or it might not. But definitely SK has a bigger position of strength relative to the US than Taiwan or even the Netherlands.
- NtGuy25 6y agoSamsung is nearly 40% of the SK economy. An attempt to put sanctions on it would SEVERELY cripple their economy. And I would expect a backroom deal before they want that blow.
- zambal 6y agoAccording to wikipedia Samsung's revenue is around 17% of SK's GDP. Still a huge amount, but considerably less than 40%.
- throwaway4good 6y agoAnother interesting rumour is that of a Chinese made EUV light source based on particle acceleration. Sounds really cool. Don't know what to make of it.
- nickdothutton 6y agoIf it was designed for Huawei using US EDA tools then it is subject to restriction. Even if it was Huawei specified, UK intellectual property and “sweat”. Unless of course Biden has changed the rules. https://web.archive.org/web/20210125200703/https://www.commerce.gov/news/press-releases/2020/05/commerce-addresses-huaweis-efforts-undermine-entity-list-restricts https://web.archive.org/web/20210125200703/https://www.comme...
- danielEM 6y agoLooks like ARM has a new core that needs desperately to sell. So let Huawei buy the licenses and then put embargo on anyone that sells whatever to Huawei :)