5 ms·

It's been interesting to watch the rise and fall of internet comment sections. They used to be found at the bottom of just about every page. But the moderation

It's been interesting to watch the rise and fall of internet comment sections. They used to be found at the bottom of just about every page. But the moderation burden has led to their removal in more and more use cases. News sites started stripping comments from articles so long ago. When you see a comment section on the bottom of an article or blog, it contributes to that feeling that the website hasn't had a remodel in a long time. Like an animated gif spacer from the 90's web. Now we are seeing the social media hubs, technically places that are entirely comment threads, abdicating moderation responsibility to thread creators. Twitter users can hide replies to their tweets. Youtube creators can as well. Now this. Overall a good trend, IMO. Moderation responsibility was so diffused that no one did it well. The emerging pattern is that the site owner can provide global moderation of clear cut illegal activity. This doesn't meet anyone's bar for civil discourse, and there's not a good global solution for how to achieve that, so the site owners will place the next level of moderation in users' hands. This starts to model how it works in the physical world, so I think we're on the right track.

andybak 6y ago
It also highlights how valuable communities that do have good moderation can be. HN being the major example. I would probably include some (emphasis on the "some") subreddits. Anywhere else?
- pjc50 6y ago
  Metafilter is one of the long-term survivors; it has been running since 1999: https://www.metafilter.com/19/CatScancom https://www.metafilter.com/19/CatScancom
datavirtue 6y ago
I assign very little value to anything on the web that can't be commented on. Sure, a solid piece of journalism does have value but more so if people can add to the conversation. Users should be able to moderate though and moderation points should be earned and spent and provide some context. Users should be able to browse comments based on their preferences, revealing those posts which have been down-voted out of sight, or made anonymously, if they choose.
- Doctor_Fegg 6y ago
  Everything on the web can be commented on. Post the URL to Reddit, Twitter, wherever. Add your comments underneath. There you go, conversation started. That doesn't mean that the publisher has to host your opinions on their site. It's their site, they choose what to put on it. They're under no obligation to amplify your opinions.
  - datavirtue 6y ago
    I didn't say they were under any obligation. Your strawman is all wet.
    - bobthepanda 6y ago
      So, every piece of journalism can have value if it can be commented on some place on the internet, which is pretty much anything with a URL.
- Emma_Goldman 6y ago
  Your first and second sentence contradict one another. You assign 'very little value to anything that can't be commented on', yet you believe a 'solid piece of journalism does have value', even if it can't be commented on. I would say the overwhelming majority of quality writing on the internet does not accommodate comments, from academic journals, to serious think-pieces and long-form essays.
  - DharmaPolice 6y ago
    "Letters to the Editor" used to (and I suppose still does) function as a method of replying to serious think pieces. Of course the newspaper/magazine curated (and edited) which replies were printed and just as importantly there's a built in speed limit to that kind of exchange. Both these things help (although you do still see incredibly stupid things in letters to the editor).
- frankydp 6y ago
  I would disagree, in that a presumptively factual news article should not also include reader opinion as context. That seems counter productive to news distribution. I would suggest that we have a opinion crisis in journalism already, and comments only contribute to the problem. User point systems are very lopsided to users that have the time to generate points, which is probably a negative selector for quality/experience/diversity in opinion.
uberswe 6y ago
I still look for comments on any article I find interesting. If the site owner takes the time to moderate the comments you can usually find some really good info there. I like to offer comments on my own sites because it's an easy way for readers to give me feedback and to start a discussion.
- ep103 6y ago
  They're a great barometer of the quality of the content and dedication of the team running the website to said quality. Its not surprising in the least that Facebook falls short in this metric.
- rchaud 6y ago
  This is becoming more and more futile as time goes on. 10+ years ago blogs were fun because of the comment section. Each website had its own particular audience who created their own culture in the comments. Now that's pretty much all gone. Most 'blogs' have no personality and are producing the same kind of keyword-researched content every other site is. The writing is dry and lifeless, as if its only purpose is to be picked up by a search engine. Scroll to the bottom, no comments, just a grotesque "share" widget. These sites look and feel like ghost towns now. It's a completely different atmosphere than what internet communities were envisioned to be.
- pllbnk 6y ago
  For some websites I like reading comment sections too. Perhaps a good moderation strategy would be to have a minimum length rule for each comment? It would not prevent spammers and bots, however putting those aside only people who want to deliver a thought-out message would participate. Not saying there wouldn't be controversial messages though.
colejohnson66 6y ago
> Like an animated gif spacer from the 90's web. I know what a “GIF spacer” is (a 1x1 pixel image resized to the desired width and height), but what’s an “animated GIF spacer”?
- pjc50 6y ago
  A small animated gif occupying a space between paragraphs or comments. I've not seen one for a decade, but google provides an example: https://www.oocities.org/itsamemario2000/english.html?202025 https://www.oocities.org/itsamemario2000/english.html?202025 the animated green lines.
- hnnameblah365 6y ago
  Maybe animated gif horizontal rule is more accurate. One that comes to mind is a lightsaber, laying on its side. Placed between paragraphs (hopefully) about Star Wars. Alternatively, page visitor counters would have been another example of outdated web aesthetics.
tdeck 6y ago
> News sites started stripping comments from articles so long ago. When you see a comment section on the bottom of an article or blog, it contributes to that feeling that the website hasn't had a remodel in a long time. I've noticed that this is correlated with AMP adoption. Many news sites still have comments on the "full" page but not the AMP page.

andybak 6y ago

It also highlights how valuable communities that do have good moderation can be. HN being the major example. I would probably include some (emphasis on the "some") subreddits. Anywhere else?

pjc50 6y ago
Metafilter is one of the long-term survivors; it has been running since 1999: https://www.metafilter.com/19/CatScancom https://www.metafilter.com/19/CatScancom

datavirtue 6y ago

I assign very little value to anything on the web that can't be commented on. Sure, a solid piece of journalism does have value but more so if people can add to the conversation. Users should be able to moderate though and moderation points should be earned and spent and provide some context. Users should be able to browse comments based on their preferences, revealing those posts which have been down-voted out of sight, or made anonymously, if they choose.

Doctor_Fegg 6y ago
Everything on the web can be commented on. Post the URL to Reddit, Twitter, wherever. Add your comments underneath. There you go, conversation started. That doesn't mean that the publisher has to host your opinions on their site. It's their site, they choose what to put on it. They're under no obligation to amplify your opinions.
- datavirtue 6y ago
  I didn't say they were under any obligation. Your strawman is all wet.
  - bobthepanda 6y ago
    So, every piece of journalism can have value if it can be commented on some place on the internet, which is pretty much anything with a URL.
Emma_Goldman 6y ago
Your first and second sentence contradict one another. You assign 'very little value to anything that can't be commented on', yet you believe a 'solid piece of journalism does have value', even if it can't be commented on. I would say the overwhelming majority of quality writing on the internet does not accommodate comments, from academic journals, to serious think-pieces and long-form essays.
- DharmaPolice 6y ago
  "Letters to the Editor" used to (and I suppose still does) function as a method of replying to serious think pieces. Of course the newspaper/magazine curated (and edited) which replies were printed and just as importantly there's a built in speed limit to that kind of exchange. Both these things help (although you do still see incredibly stupid things in letters to the editor).
frankydp 6y ago
I would disagree, in that a presumptively factual news article should not also include reader opinion as context. That seems counter productive to news distribution. I would suggest that we have a opinion crisis in journalism already, and comments only contribute to the problem. User point systems are very lopsided to users that have the time to generate points, which is probably a negative selector for quality/experience/diversity in opinion.

uberswe 6y ago

I still look for comments on any article I find interesting. If the site owner takes the time to moderate the comments you can usually find some really good info there. I like to offer comments on my own sites because it's an easy way for readers to give me feedback and to start a discussion.

ep103 6y ago
They're a great barometer of the quality of the content and dedication of the team running the website to said quality. Its not surprising in the least that Facebook falls short in this metric.
rchaud 6y ago
This is becoming more and more futile as time goes on. 10+ years ago blogs were fun because of the comment section. Each website had its own particular audience who created their own culture in the comments. Now that's pretty much all gone. Most 'blogs' have no personality and are producing the same kind of keyword-researched content every other site is. The writing is dry and lifeless, as if its only purpose is to be picked up by a search engine. Scroll to the bottom, no comments, just a grotesque "share" widget. These sites look and feel like ghost towns now. It's a completely different atmosphere than what internet communities were envisioned to be.
pllbnk 6y ago
For some websites I like reading comment sections too. Perhaps a good moderation strategy would be to have a minimum length rule for each comment? It would not prevent spammers and bots, however putting those aside only people who want to deliver a thought-out message would participate. Not saying there wouldn't be controversial messages though.

colejohnson66 6y ago

> Like an animated gif spacer from the 90's web. I know what a “GIF spacer” is (a 1x1 pixel image resized to the desired width and height), but what’s an “animated GIF spacer”?

pjc50 6y ago
A small animated gif occupying a space between paragraphs or comments. I've not seen one for a decade, but google provides an example: https://www.oocities.org/itsamemario2000/english.html?202025 https://www.oocities.org/itsamemario2000/english.html?202025 the animated green lines.
hnnameblah365 6y ago
Maybe animated gif horizontal rule is more accurate. One that comes to mind is a lightsaber, laying on its side. Placed between paragraphs (hopefully) about Star Wars. Alternatively, page visitor counters would have been another example of outdated web aesthetics.

tdeck 6y ago

> News sites started stripping comments from articles so long ago. When you see a comment section on the bottom of an article or blog, it contributes to that feeling that the website hasn't had a remodel in a long time. I've noticed that this is correlated with AMP adoption. Many news sites still have comments on the "full" page but not the AMP page.