4 ms·

How efficient is overlayfs? Could you use this to build a regular packaging system where instead of installing .debs/.rpms directly, they come as extension imag

by olau 6y ago

How efficient is overlayfs? Could you use this to build a regular packaging system where instead of installing .debs/.rpms directly, they come as extension images and you just mount them in? I sometimes wonder why we even install stuff - mount it it in from remote with some kind of caching system, and you'd always have the latest, like on the web. Slap a delta algorithm on top, and it could even be more efficient. This is not to say that there's no value in freezing stuff and staying in control - there is - but ideally we would be able to choose.

unilynx 6y ago
isn't this what things like flatpack/snap try to offer?
- marcodiego 6y ago
  Flatpak/snap/AppImage have been a godsend for me. I can now finally have a satisfactory easy balance between security/maturity of my system and run the latest software without having to compile it, and sometimes some of its dependencies, myself.
- vetinari 6y ago
  Flatpak/snap are other part of the same puzzle. Think of them as the "app" part similar to mobile OSes; fedora silverblue/rpm-ostree/systemd-extensions as the "system" part.
Arnavion 6y ago
Yes, that's been one of Poettering's long-term goals [1] [2], and what Fedora SilverBlue and OSTree are trying to achieve. systemd features like the ability to create users via installable files [3] are geared towards this goal. [1]: http://0pointer.net/blog/projects/stateless.html http://0pointer.net/blog/projects/stateless.html [2]: http://0pointer.net/blog/revisiting-how-we-put-together-linux-systems.html http://0pointer.net/blog/revisiting-how-we-put-together-linu... [3]: https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/sysusers.d.html https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/sysusers.d....
genghizkhan 6y ago
In my experience the performance is nearly the same as without. The code is fairly optimised. And I agree: one could use systemd-sysext with something like rpm-ostree to create very robust systems with selective immutability.
rakoo 6y ago
The CERN have something exactly like that: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25652503 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25652503
rezonant 6y ago
Apparently not (yet), see Uses in https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd-sysext.html https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd-sys...
eliaspro 6y ago
A friend of mine built something like this 10y ago or so - a fuse filesystem backend for a NixOS/Nix-store with built-in caching. So whenever you started an application/version you never ran before, it was just downloaded on demand and the only thing you might have noticed is a slight delay in startup duration. By just regularly updating the configured Nix-channel it was always the latest software of this channel running in the local environment.
Zardoz84 6y ago
slax did this a long time ago.

by olau 6y ago

unilynx 6y ago

isn't this what things like flatpack/snap try to offer?

marcodiego 6y ago
Flatpak/snap/AppImage have been a godsend for me. I can now finally have a satisfactory easy balance between security/maturity of my system and run the latest software without having to compile it, and sometimes some of its dependencies, myself.
vetinari 6y ago
Flatpak/snap are other part of the same puzzle. Think of them as the "app" part similar to mobile OSes; fedora silverblue/rpm-ostree/systemd-extensions as the "system" part.

Arnavion 6y ago

Yes, that's been one of Poettering's long-term goals [1] [2], and what Fedora SilverBlue and OSTree are trying to achieve. systemd features like the ability to create users via installable files [3] are geared towards this goal. [1]: http://0pointer.net/blog/projects/stateless.html http://0pointer.net/blog/projects/stateless.html [2]: http://0pointer.net/blog/revisiting-how-we-put-together-linux-systems.html http://0pointer.net/blog/revisiting-how-we-put-together-linu... [3]: https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/sysusers.d.html https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/sysusers.d....

genghizkhan 6y ago

In my experience the performance is nearly the same as without. The code is fairly optimised. And I agree: one could use systemd-sysext with something like rpm-ostree to create very robust systems with selective immutability.

rakoo 6y ago

The CERN have something exactly like that: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25652503 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25652503

rezonant 6y ago

Apparently not (yet), see Uses in https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd-sysext.html https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd-sys...

eliaspro 6y ago

A friend of mine built something like this 10y ago or so - a fuse filesystem backend for a NixOS/Nix-store with built-in caching. So whenever you started an application/version you never ran before, it was just downloaded on demand and the only thing you might have noticed is a slight delay in startup duration. By just regularly updating the configured Nix-channel it was always the latest software of this channel running in the local environment.

Zardoz84 6y ago

slax did this a long time ago.