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I really want to use frameworks, but I find the learning curve is often hard to overcome without using the damn thing daily. Any advice on this front? Is it ju

by movedx 6y ago

I really want to use frameworks, but I find the learning curve is often hard to overcome without using the damn thing daily. Any advice on this front? Is it just a case of using, using, using and eventually it'll all click?

sputr 6y ago
Honestly no. Developer would not be paid as much as they(we) are if these things were neither easy nor time-consuming. And yes, a lot of learning development is the latter. That's why the idea, still pushed as some collages "if you know one coding language, you know them all" is so stupid. In the real world you're not a "X language" developer. If you want to be really good/charge a lot you have to be "X framework" developer. It's insane how quickly and well one can code when you really "get" on the mainstream frameworks. The designers really did a fantastic job. But it takes a while to learn.
have_faith 6y ago
I find that the surface area of a framework (amount of concepts you need to learn) is roughly comparable to the number of problems it attempts to solve. Most established frameworks started with a few problems to solve and they picked up new problems to solve on their journey. The worst offenders don't stop adding new problems to solve. Looking for a simpler framework often starts with sacrificing some of the problems you want to solve (or didn't realise were being solved by the frameworks you're considering). Maybe I'll make a website for sorting frameworks based on more personal concerns like "on-ramping complexity" and "amount of learning required to be productive". Obviously subjective but maybe helpful.
- movedx 6y ago
  I think there would be a demand for this, from individual developers and organisations too. Happy to be involved in such a project if you want to fire it up.
mettamage 6y ago
Learn one framework quite well. I had the fortune in 2014 to be obsessed with making iOS apps and learned Cocoa Touch as a result. Later when I learned React, I noticed there already were a couple if concepts that I saw before such as lifecycle methods, to the point I could guess what other lifecycle methods React might have. Once you are on your fourth framework, while only knowing one well, it will feel all the same. At least it does to me. The questions I ask are: - what is the preferred way of working with this framework? - what constitutes fighting against a framework? - what concepts look a lot (or are identical to) concepts in other frameworks? If learning is still difficult: - who wrote a good beginner book? When I was learning React, I read The Road To React in a few days, then made a small project, then an actual project. When I really got serious, I had a lot of code already written that I reused as boilerplate/template code and would simply alter it and expand where necessary, learning more advanced concepts on the way. YMMV
- movedx 6y ago
  This is good to know, thanks. I'm looking at Golang based frameworks my self. I love it as a language and try to use it for everything :-)

by movedx 6y ago

sputr 6y ago

Honestly no. Developer would not be paid as much as they(we) are if these things were neither easy nor time-consuming. And yes, a lot of learning development is the latter. That's why the idea, still pushed as some collages "if you know one coding language, you know them all" is so stupid. In the real world you're not a "X language" developer. If you want to be really good/charge a lot you have to be "X framework" developer. It's insane how quickly and well one can code when you really "get" on the mainstream frameworks. The designers really did a fantastic job. But it takes a while to learn.

have_faith 6y ago

I find that the surface area of a framework (amount of concepts you need to learn) is roughly comparable to the number of problems it attempts to solve. Most established frameworks started with a few problems to solve and they picked up new problems to solve on their journey. The worst offenders don't stop adding new problems to solve. Looking for a simpler framework often starts with sacrificing some of the problems you want to solve (or didn't realise were being solved by the frameworks you're considering). Maybe I'll make a website for sorting frameworks based on more personal concerns like "on-ramping complexity" and "amount of learning required to be productive". Obviously subjective but maybe helpful.

movedx 6y ago
I think there would be a demand for this, from individual developers and organisations too. Happy to be involved in such a project if you want to fire it up.

mettamage 6y ago

Learn one framework quite well. I had the fortune in 2014 to be obsessed with making iOS apps and learned Cocoa Touch as a result. Later when I learned React, I noticed there already were a couple if concepts that I saw before such as lifecycle methods, to the point I could guess what other lifecycle methods React might have. Once you are on your fourth framework, while only knowing one well, it will feel all the same. At least it does to me. The questions I ask are: - what is the preferred way of working with this framework? - what constitutes fighting against a framework? - what concepts look a lot (or are identical to) concepts in other frameworks? If learning is still difficult: - who wrote a good beginner book? When I was learning React, I read The Road To React in a few days, then made a small project, then an actual project. When I really got serious, I had a lot of code already written that I reused as boilerplate/template code and would simply alter it and expand where necessary, learning more advanced concepts on the way. YMMV

movedx 6y ago
This is good to know, thanks. I'm looking at Golang based frameworks my self. I love it as a language and try to use it for everything :-)