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It's so sad that most dentists optimise for billable revenue, even at the detriment of long term patient health. Fillings for example always degrade and need r
by dannyw 6y ago
It's so sad that most dentists optimise for billable revenue, even at the detriment of long term patient health.
Fillings for example always degrade and need repairs after X years. Drilling and filling even the smallest cavity puts that teeth on a lifetime progression to bigger and bigger fillings, eventually a root canal, eventually an implant.
Cavities, on the other hand can be arrested (stopped), and if small can even be remineralised. Yes, most dentists don't tell you that!
Careful monitoring and patient education on the other hand can lead to permanently keeping that natural teeth, as our teeth are living and can heal.
My personal lived experience: a dentist told me I must fill 2 cavities six years ago. I got a second opinion. That dentist told me I should wait, focus on oral care, chew xylitol gum, and use a toothpaste with novamin.
Both cavities have "arrested" and need no restorative work.
Disclaimer: Not a dentist. Listen to your dentist you trust, and get second opinions if you have doubt.
- donatj 6y agoNovamin toothpaste has been life changing for me. Cannot recommend highly enough. A tooth that was deteriorating and the dentist wanted to cap is now fine enough for them to simply keep an eye on.
- blackrock 6y agoI have never heard of this Novamin toothpaste before. Nor has any of my dentists ever recommended it. It looks like the popular brand is Sensodyne.
- elsonrodriguez 6y agoSensodyne does not have Novamin in the USA(insert conspiracy theory here). You'd either have to import it from a reputable supplier, or try an alternative like Apagard or Biomin F(both of those have to be imported too, but are more readily available).
- spyder 6y agoArticle from 2018 about that: "As of the time of this update, Sensodyne toothpaste with NovaMin is now available on Amazon to buyers in the USA, directly from Sensodyne/GSK." https://medium.com/@ravenstine/the-curious-history-of-novamin-toothpaste-620c6bef8881 https://medium.com/@ravenstine/the-curious-history-of-novami... https://www.amazon.com/Sensodyne-Protect-Whitening-Toothpaste-Packaging/dp/B008VPSTOA#customerReviews https://www.amazon.com/Sensodyne-Protect-Whitening-Toothpast...
- throw1234651234 6y agoThat article really helped me understand what this is all about, ty!
- bemmu 6y agoQuick googling found a funny metastudy: "The articles from the database obtained for further review was N = 1. According to the study..."
- boruto 6y agoHaha, I read the same after googling. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7068624/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7068624/
- ClumsyPilot 6y agoI never heard of Novamin, but I used Sensodyne for years becase it tastes better.
- blackrock 6y agoHas it helped with maintaining the health of your teeth?
- Benjamin_Dobell 6y agoI just started using toothpaste with nano-Hydroxypatite after a recommendation from a friend. Obviously I can't say much about its effectiveness long-term. But it feels amazing. Feels like there's a protective layer over the enamel - hopefully there actually is! Apparently, nano-Hydroxypatite is even more effective than Novamin (which is still good): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5121804/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5121804/ If you're in Australia and struggling to find toothpaste with Hydroxypatite, Chemist Warehouse stock "Healthy Care Sensitive Propolis Toothpaste". So far, highly recommended.
- social_quotient 6y agoTotally agree! The brands I use are - Apagard - Boka - CTx4
- kristofferR 6y agoAnother interesting teeth restoring substance I just discovered: Oligopeptide P11-4 [1] [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oligopeptide_P11-4 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oligopeptide_P11-4
- social_quotient 6y agoI’ve had similar success with toothpastes containing “nano-hydroxyapatite” Amazon has several good ones. I also have 2 kids, the youngest (4 yr old) had cavity issues which required intervention and then we started using the hydroxyapatite toothpaste and had no issues since. I also headed down this path via looking for Novamin. I wish there was a reliable way to get it without the “is it fake” on Amazon. I’d gladly accept any reliable sources.
- Black101 6y agoI ordered some from Canada, made in Canada, using Ebay (about as reliable as Amazon but it doesn't come from India and it is cheaper).
- nickspacek 6y agoI went looking on Ebay but couldn't find anything in Canada, do you mind sharing the brand or keyword?
- Black101 6y agoSorry I was talking about the Novamin one... I think the nano-hydroxyapatite one is available in the US.
- dharma1 6y agoHave you checked out Biomin? It’s meant to be an improved version of Novamin.
- logicchains 6y ago>Cavities, on the other hand can be arrested (stopped), and if small can even be remineralised. Yes, most dentists don't tell you that! >Careful monitoring and patient education on the other hand can lead to permanently keeping that natural teeth, as our teeth are living and can heal. Do you have any sources for this? I'm not disagreeing; I hope it's true.
- tablespoon 6y ago> Do you have any sources for this? I'm not disagreeing; I hope it's true. My dentist prescribed/sold me this for some decay: http://www.mi-paste.com/whyMIP.php http://www.mi-paste.com/whyMIP.php She said it works sometimes. I definitely like this conservative approach better than my last dentist's, who filled 4 teeth unnecessarily because his DIAGNOdent beeped once.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- drawfloat 6y agoI'd be suspicious of those claims – anecdotal but, unless US doctors differ greatly, neither of those are secrets that have been withheld from me by dentists in 3 European countries. In fact the second statement is surely the basis for most modern dentistry...? (I said US there because it's an assumption that the US approach to dentistry may be different to rest of the world. From afar, seems more cosmetic focused with a lot more emphasis put on whitening/straightening/veneer/fixing procedures than over here)
- blamestross 6y agoWell it isn't like dentists in the US are real doctors like in other countries
- tmamic 6y agohttps://youtu.be/3zL4Hou1P-c?t=187 https://youtu.be/3zL4Hou1P-c?t=187 Mineralisation of tooth is a constant process with a tug-of-war between pathogenic and protective factors [3:09]. If it's in the balance, of the remineralisation factors prevail, you can stop the progress of the cavity. But deeper the cavity, this is harder to achieve. Arrested dental caries is an official diagnosis recognized by ADA: https://www.icd10data.com/ICD10CM/Codes/K00-K95/K00-K14/K02-/K02.3 https://www.icd10data.com/ICD10CM/Codes/K00-K95/K00-K14/K02-...
- Duckey 6y agoInteresting, I knew of someone who also claimed they reversed a cavity by focusing on oral care, and drinking a ton of milk. Personally, I had a chipped tooth in my early teens and it went away after a decade. I was also drinking about a gallon of milk a day, but I don't know if that's what really fixed my tooth. I wasn't actively doing anything special with my teeth to try to fix them. I just really like milk. The problem just seemed to go away on its own.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- airhead969 6y agoOrthopedic surgeons do the same thing. Inject steroids repeatedly, degrading joints in order to do joint replacements. And those joint replacements aren't great, so they need to be replaced periodically.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- throwaway57832 6y ago> It's so sad that most dentists optimise for billable revenue I've heard this so often as well as the more general statement that doctors optimize for revenue. I think it's nonsense and even dangerous. People are more likely to die from deadly diseases like cancer because they avoid doctors. The anti-vaccination movement is also very likely linked to this sentiment. > Cavities, on the other hand can be arrested (stopped), If they are really small. And even if, teeth with rough surface require multiple times more effort to take care of. (So you really need to chew a lot of gum) Only exception are deep holes, those you sometimes don't want to fill so the tooth can "breathe", at least for some years IIRC. > and if small can even be remineralised. Yes, most dentists don't tell you that! 2 out of 3 dentists told me to buy remineralization tooth paste and use it once a week. Also I'm getting urged nowadays to go twice a year for tooth cleaning including professional remineralization treatment. Disclaimer: Not a dentist either. I think medical advice should be taken from people that have actually studied that stuff.
- tmamic 6y ago> optimize for revenue. I think it's nonsense and even dangerous. As with everything, there are caveats to the kind of doctor you are talking. The key distinction is that most dentists keep the residual income: the difference between the fixed costs and income. It can be a quite large sum and high % of dentists' earnings. So a dentist has a very strong incentive to increase it. Overtreating patients is the easiest way to do it since increasing the prices is not an option due to competition. Who isn't keeping the residual income? It's the doctors who work only for a fixed salary. They can't earn more by overtreating. In fact, if they have less work, they are at profit since their salary is fixed. They don't care about increasing the residual income since they don't get it. So, this is not some conspiracy theory. It is based on economic facts. I've analyzed this in more details here: https://documentation.denther.com/docs/industry/inefficiencies https://documentation.denther.com/docs/industry/inefficienci...
- rexf 6y ago> Listen to your dentist you trust Sure, but it's tough to find a dentist since: > most dentists optimise for billable revenue I find it hard to trust dentists since they may exaggerate cavities to put money in their pocket.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- HWR_14 6y agoMy dentist friend claims he makes far more money per hour from cleanings than from fillings. This is because most of a cleaning is done by a relatively lowly paid hygienist but still requires him popping in for 5 minutes and a filling requires him to be there the whole time.
- kwhitefoot 6y agoThat's really strange. Here in Norway I visit a dentist roughly once a year and usually only see my dentist if the dental hygienist has found a problem.
- HWR_14 6y ago5 minutes may be a bit long for the US. I don't know if it's a legal requirement that the dentist pop in (to supervise) or because people will balk at paying as much without a Doctor appearing. I'm not aware of the dentist usually finding things that the hygienist missed.
- xenadu02 6y agoMy dentist simply put me on toothpaste with high fluoride (IIRC 8%?). Two caries remineralized over the span of about a year and I didn't need fillings. Unfortunately high fluoride toothpastes require an RX.
- ClumsyPilot 6y agoWhats an RX?
- kristofferR 6y agoI just take fluoride pills after brushing in the evening. Common here in Norway a least. Tastes great too, it's like a small treat before bedtime. Has worked great, have never had a cavity.
- raducu 6y agoI've had multiple dentists(including my wife) tell me not to work on certain small cavities, or to use sensodyne. Some have been under observation for more than 20 years. I'm also sure they have re-mineralization treatments they do on site, if it was really worth it, they'd be glad to take your money for that. I'm sure they have exact procedures for when to work on a cavity or not.
- wmeredith 6y ago> Cavities, on the other hand can be arrested (stopped), and if small can even be remineralised. Yes, most dentists don't tell you that! What is with this sentiment about evil dentists wrecking peoples' teeth prevalent in this thread? Any dentist will tell you that if you brush and floss daily and consume sugar responsibly, that your teeth will be healthy and happy for the vast majority of your life. A VERY small percentage of the population actually does this. There is no big dental conspiracy to destroy our teeth. We do that just fine on our own.