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I found this hard to read. Principally I was looking for sources and I found a lot of statements with no easy footnoting of sources. After looking at the Gray

I found this hard to read. Principally I was looking for sources and I found a lot of statements with no easy footnoting of sources. After looking at the Grayzone/ModerateRebels video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZkxaEC1xjY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZkxaEC1xjY about the very odd and weak claims about China's behavior in this regard I was hoping that some more diverse, specific and accurate sources would be present in e.g. https://www.state.gov/reports/2020-country-reports-on-human-rights-practices/china/ https://www.state.gov/reports/2020-country-reports-on-human-... If only a fraction of what Blumethal claims in the video is correct then this is singularly unhelpful and definitely smells a bit. I look forward to the call for sanctions on the USA by the USA, backed up by appropriate force to support the workers in the gig economy suffering in the same way as the ones in China cited at the end of the report: Workers in the gig economy were considered contract workers and not under the protections of the labor law. There were reports of app delivery drivers injured or killed on the job. On September 9, the magazine Renwu exposed how online platform algorithms created dangerous conditions for delivery drivers, including by shortening delivery times and issuing penalties for delays. The report prompted two major delivery firms to extend delivery times and reduce penalties for late deliveries.

mc32 6y ago
Call us back when such companies force sterilizations[1] and force free labor and force indoctrination and confiscate any travel papers, etc. [1]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/10/twitter-removes-china-us-embassy-post-saying-uighur-women-no-longer-baby-making-machines https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/10/twitter-remove...
- frabbit 6y ago
  Got a source for that?
  - hkmaxpro 6y ago
    Have you watched the victims’ testimony videos and this primary evidence report? https://shahit.biz/eng/ https://shahit.biz/eng/ Or this report [0] by more than 50 global experts in international law, genocide, and China? [0] https://newlinesinstitute.org/uyghurs/the-uyghur-genocide-an-examination-of-chinas-breaches-of-the-1948-genocide-convention/ https://newlinesinstitute.org/uyghurs/the-uyghur-genocide-an...
    - dundarious 6y ago
      The Newlines report relies heavily on Adrian Zenz' questionable work, often directly, but also indirectly via quoting from news reporting that uses Zenz' work as its primary source. Zenz' analysis on suppressing births is questionable in particular, and is one of the central planks for the claim of genocide. And given Zenz seems to be the majority source on this topic in the Newlines report, I don't think it's too conspiratorial to doubt it also. That being said, I haven't fully read either the State Dept.'s report, nor the Newlines report, nor all the primary documents (of course), and importantly, I do believe the treatment of the Uyghurs to be unjust. I think Saddam Hussein was an unjust ruler in Iraq also, but there was widespread misinformation and numerous lies put forth in order to justify the Iraq War (both actually, but it is perhaps more complicated to justify for the first Gulf War). We're probably not in danger of a war with China in the next decade, but if we're going to have a Cold War 2, I'd like it to be based on less questionable sources.
      - WANGCHEN 6y ago
        If you have doubt that the sources are questionable, so why do you believe the treatment of the Uyghurs to be unjust?
        yorwba 6y ago
        There are other, less questionable sources. For example, this report by Nankai University: https://web.archive.org/web/20200507161938/https://ciwe.nankai.edu.cn/2019/1223/c18571a259225/page.htm https://web.archive.org/web/20200507161938/https://ciwe.nank... They especially criticize situations like the following 有多次新疆劳务人员在组团干部的带领下，在接近到达目的地的火车上接到当地公安部门不允许下车的命令，结果导致很多令人尴尬、懊丧、失败的现象发生。有几次经过解说后被允许下了火车但又不允许出站台，出了站台又不允许进厂，进厂后却不允许上班工作，已经工作几天的甚至勒令必须立即回新疆老家，否则公安部门经常以各种理由到企业上门检查、询问、调查，致其根本无法正常上班干活，而企业不得不委屈地找各种理由解雇本已经适应工作岗位的工人。这些情况已经发生在几个省市区，当然有的省市区干脆压根儿就不允许任何新疆籍人员进入。所有这些，都是在冠冕堂皇的以地区安全稳定为由、为幌子下进行的。 Of course that's not the kind of unjust treatment that tends to be highlighted in Western sources (I found this report via an article that focused more on "通过劳务输出的方式，既减少了维族在新疆地区的人口密度，也是感化、融化、同化少数维族人员的重要方法") but it's definitely unjust treatment.
        dundarious 6y ago
refurb 6y ago
Very strong whataboutism and claims of moral equivalency.
- frabbit 6y ago
  I did not get that from Blumenthal's video at all. His most interesting points are that the most of the claims lead back to one person, Adrian Zenz, who appears to have made some serious errors in his published work. Blumenthal calls for a open, academic engagement with this work instead of a hysterical acceptance of it. The fact that the US government has lied with very serious consequences about such things before make this something we should all take seriously.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

mc32 6y ago

Call us back when such companies force sterilizations[1] and force free labor and force indoctrination and confiscate any travel papers, etc. [1]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/10/twitter-removes-china-us-embassy-post-saying-uighur-women-no-longer-baby-making-machines https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/10/twitter-remove...

frabbit 6y ago
Got a source for that?
- hkmaxpro 6y ago
  Have you watched the victims’ testimony videos and this primary evidence report? https://shahit.biz/eng/ https://shahit.biz/eng/ Or this report [0] by more than 50 global experts in international law, genocide, and China? [0] https://newlinesinstitute.org/uyghurs/the-uyghur-genocide-an-examination-of-chinas-breaches-of-the-1948-genocide-convention/ https://newlinesinstitute.org/uyghurs/the-uyghur-genocide-an...
  - dundarious 6y ago
    The Newlines report relies heavily on Adrian Zenz' questionable work, often directly, but also indirectly via quoting from news reporting that uses Zenz' work as its primary source. Zenz' analysis on suppressing births is questionable in particular, and is one of the central planks for the claim of genocide. And given Zenz seems to be the majority source on this topic in the Newlines report, I don't think it's too conspiratorial to doubt it also. That being said, I haven't fully read either the State Dept.'s report, nor the Newlines report, nor all the primary documents (of course), and importantly, I do believe the treatment of the Uyghurs to be unjust. I think Saddam Hussein was an unjust ruler in Iraq also, but there was widespread misinformation and numerous lies put forth in order to justify the Iraq War (both actually, but it is perhaps more complicated to justify for the first Gulf War). We're probably not in danger of a war with China in the next decade, but if we're going to have a Cold War 2, I'd like it to be based on less questionable sources.
    - WANGCHEN 6y ago
      If you have doubt that the sources are questionable, so why do you believe the treatment of the Uyghurs to be unjust?
      - yorwba 6y ago
        There are other, less questionable sources. For example, this report by Nankai University: https://web.archive.org/web/20200507161938/https://ciwe.nankai.edu.cn/2019/1223/c18571a259225/page.htm https://web.archive.org/web/20200507161938/https://ciwe.nank... They especially criticize situations like the following 有多次新疆劳务人员在组团干部的带领下，在接近到达目的地的火车上接到当地公安部门不允许下车的命令，结果导致很多令人尴尬、懊丧、失败的现象发生。有几次经过解说后被允许下了火车但又不允许出站台，出了站台又不允许进厂，进厂后却不允许上班工作，已经工作几天的甚至勒令必须立即回新疆老家，否则公安部门经常以各种理由到企业上门检查、询问、调查，致其根本无法正常上班干活，而企业不得不委屈地找各种理由解雇本已经适应工作岗位的工人。这些情况已经发生在几个省市区，当然有的省市区干脆压根儿就不允许任何新疆籍人员进入。所有这些，都是在冠冕堂皇的以地区安全稳定为由、为幌子下进行的。 Of course that's not the kind of unjust treatment that tends to be highlighted in Western sources (I found this report via an article that focused more on "通过劳务输出的方式，既减少了维族在新疆地区的人口密度，也是感化、融化、同化少数维族人员的重要方法") but it's definitely unjust treatment.
      - dundarious 6y ago

refurb 6y ago

Very strong whataboutism and claims of moral equivalency.

frabbit 6y ago
I did not get that from Blumenthal's video at all. His most interesting points are that the most of the claims lead back to one person, Adrian Zenz, who appears to have made some serious errors in his published work. Blumenthal calls for a open, academic engagement with this work instead of a hysterical acceptance of it. The fact that the US government has lied with very serious consequences about such things before make this something we should all take seriously.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]