4 ms·

I think that unaccountable police are a big problem, but I feel that I cannot support the BLM narrative even though that narrative might end up making police mo

I think that unaccountable police are a big problem, but I feel that I cannot support the BLM narrative even though that narrative might end up making police more accountable. For one thing, it disgusts me when I see this narrative pushed dogmatically even though it is far from clear that it accurately describes reality - and especially, it disgusts me when I see people try to make it taboo to question the narrative. I view that level of thought policing as a real danger - while perhaps it does not endanger people's lives, it does help to turn society into a place that is unfit for free-thinking people to live in. For another, dogmatic belief in the BLM narrative has led to actual violence.

mindslight 6y ago
Every political movement goes sideways when it gains mass popularity. I don't know if this is because the successful narratives tend to enrich some entrenched interest, psychopaths rise to the top, negative-sum games have popular appeal, the average person isn't smart enough to fit nuanced opinions in their head, humans are herd animals, or some mix of all of these. But whatever it is, whenever any grassroots movement gains the primetime spotlight, it invariably finds the wrong answer and runs with it. Hope and Change turned into justifying drone strikes and persecuting Snowden. The Tea Party turned into supporting the most despotic anti-American president in recent history. The recent Democratic mandate is turning into more bullshit "gun control" rather than staying focused on real hardships caused by several decades of economic destruction. The Libertarian party is teetering at the edge of cryptofascism, just waiting for a hint of power (said as a libertarian). Trying to argue nuance with any supporters will get you labeled as an other and summarily rejected. Even right here my comment was downvoted for what? Pointing out that Black Lives Matter is intrinsically racist? It's right in the name! Perhaps some of that racism is needed for motivation, but pointing it out runs up against the cognitive dissonance of "racism" being unequivocally bad. Seemingly the best you can do is have such discussions with friends who won't immediately write you off, although you'll often run into the same roadblock there. My own take on BLM is that it's not meant for me, and that's fine. I wish them well and hope they don't get too derailed by self-defeating means.
- blacktriangle 6y ago
  BLM is a self-proclaimed Marxist organization among whose stated goals is "the destruction of the nuclear family." I find it surprising that you as a libertarian would wish them well.
  - mindslight 6y ago
    It's impossible to discuss your claim, because the only sources I could find making it were taking quotes and interpreting them in bad faith. If you have primary sources that back up what you're claiming I'd be interested. Otherwise it just seems like red team FUD. Any large organization seeking change will always have members that stretch their agenda, framing it in terms of paving over everything with their pet paradigm. But judging a group by its outliers is fallacious. I've got no worry that BLM will somehow end up in charge of everything - they will be lucky if they accomplish one fifth of what they set out to do. The energy of Black Lives Matter is based on bringing murderers to justice - something that anybody who believes in the rule of law should be concerned with. I'm unconcerned with who is statistically more likely to be killed by police. What I am concerned with is that an armed gang broke into fellow American Breonna Taylor's home and murdered her, but has yet to be prosecuted due to corruption! Every single one of these incidents is an injustice, regardless of skin color. If you can point me to a similar non-racist or non-"Marxist" (your standard) organization fighting for the rule of law to be applied to the police, I am all ears. As my previous comment alludes to, basing one's organization on racism is channeling a negative energy that will stay with the movement forever. But after seeing the reaction to BLM and the general events of 2020, apparently that overt racism exists to a greater degree than my New England sensibilities had imagined, and so they might as well acknowledge and use it.
    - blacktriangle 6y ago
      https://nypost.com/2020/09/24/blm-removes-website-language-blasting-nuclear-family-structure/ https://nypost.com/2020/09/24/blm-removes-website-language-b...
      - 6y ago

mindslight 6y ago

Every political movement goes sideways when it gains mass popularity. I don't know if this is because the successful narratives tend to enrich some entrenched interest, psychopaths rise to the top, negative-sum games have popular appeal, the average person isn't smart enough to fit nuanced opinions in their head, humans are herd animals, or some mix of all of these. But whatever it is, whenever any grassroots movement gains the primetime spotlight, it invariably finds the wrong answer and runs with it. Hope and Change turned into justifying drone strikes and persecuting Snowden. The Tea Party turned into supporting the most despotic anti-American president in recent history. The recent Democratic mandate is turning into more bullshit "gun control" rather than staying focused on real hardships caused by several decades of economic destruction. The Libertarian party is teetering at the edge of cryptofascism, just waiting for a hint of power (said as a libertarian). Trying to argue nuance with any supporters will get you labeled as an other and summarily rejected. Even right here my comment was downvoted for what? Pointing out that Black Lives Matter is intrinsically racist? It's right in the name! Perhaps some of that racism is needed for motivation, but pointing it out runs up against the cognitive dissonance of "racism" being unequivocally bad. Seemingly the best you can do is have such discussions with friends who won't immediately write you off, although you'll often run into the same roadblock there. My own take on BLM is that it's not meant for me, and that's fine. I wish them well and hope they don't get too derailed by self-defeating means.

blacktriangle 6y ago
BLM is a self-proclaimed Marxist organization among whose stated goals is "the destruction of the nuclear family." I find it surprising that you as a libertarian would wish them well.
- mindslight 6y ago
  It's impossible to discuss your claim, because the only sources I could find making it were taking quotes and interpreting them in bad faith. If you have primary sources that back up what you're claiming I'd be interested. Otherwise it just seems like red team FUD. Any large organization seeking change will always have members that stretch their agenda, framing it in terms of paving over everything with their pet paradigm. But judging a group by its outliers is fallacious. I've got no worry that BLM will somehow end up in charge of everything - they will be lucky if they accomplish one fifth of what they set out to do. The energy of Black Lives Matter is based on bringing murderers to justice - something that anybody who believes in the rule of law should be concerned with. I'm unconcerned with who is statistically more likely to be killed by police. What I am concerned with is that an armed gang broke into fellow American Breonna Taylor's home and murdered her, but has yet to be prosecuted due to corruption! Every single one of these incidents is an injustice, regardless of skin color. If you can point me to a similar non-racist or non-"Marxist" (your standard) organization fighting for the rule of law to be applied to the police, I am all ears. As my previous comment alludes to, basing one's organization on racism is channeling a negative energy that will stay with the movement forever. But after seeing the reaction to BLM and the general events of 2020, apparently that overt racism exists to a greater degree than my New England sensibilities had imagined, and so they might as well acknowledge and use it.
  - blacktriangle 6y ago
    https://nypost.com/2020/09/24/blm-removes-website-language-blasting-nuclear-family-structure/ https://nypost.com/2020/09/24/blm-removes-website-language-b...
    - 6y ago