6 ms·

The King needed a varying amount of support from lords, one church or another and a developing parliament depending on when in time it was. And at every step a

The King needed a varying amount of support from lords, one church or another and a developing parliament depending on when in time it was. And at every step along that journey, it was proclaimed as the best possible way of doing things, ordained by god, etc etc. Not just politics, we actually have the ideal system here.

throwaway894345 6y ago
To be clear, my response was satire. You suggested that the Supreme Court was functionally the same as the CCP politburo on the basis that there is some non-zero amount of politicking in either case. I pointed out that the same was true of Anglo-Saxon England to expose the ridiculousness of the equivalence, but you're ignoring that point and making a new point, utterly unrelated to the previous one (in fairness I would also abandon that position)? Something to the effect of, "Because some Americans and Anglo-Saxons thought their systems were the bees-knees, they must be equally terrible"? Am I getting this right?
- refenestrator 6y ago
  Let me come at it this way. You're hyping up our court system and constitution, freedom, all of that. Yet we imprison Americans at a much higher rate than Chinese imprison their own. And that's before I even get into how we treat foreigners. So how much are all those great rhetorical adjectives worth when the rubber hits the road?
  - throwaway894345 6y ago
    The “constitution” isn’t an adjective, and I didn’t mention “freedom”. The US incarceration rates are suboptimal, but China is operating actual concentration camps and sterilizing women based on their ethnicity. In 2020 the US had a record year with respect to brutality against journalists and it still would have been the best year China has had in at least the last 70 years. China still practices slavery in all but name. 60 years ago the CCP was waging genocide against its own people. If “corruption” feels too abstract for you, hopefully those things can provide some context about “where the rubber meets the road”. If you still think these things are on the same level as the US’s problems, we aren’t going to be able to have a productive debate.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - refenestrator 6y ago
      So, just to pick one of your accusations there -- forced sterilization in China is a global policy if you have too many kids. It's not ethnically targeted, and until recently, minority populations were allowed to have more kids than Han Chinese. This is easily verifiable if you talk to anyone from China. Too many kids, you get sterilized, them's the rules (unless you're rich/connected, of course). So why do our media always report cases involving minorities out of context, creating unfortunate assumptions? Who benefits from that? You'd think the free press would surface the most accurate story, right? Just like the awesome judiciary shouldn't lead to world-leading incarceration rates. This set of gaps is what I'm talking about, not China's sins or virtues.
      - throwaway894345 6y ago
        > It's not ethnically targeted Citation needed. > This is easily verifiable if you talk to anyone from China. Is it conceivable that China is not entirely honest with its citizens about its various atrocities? If this seems far-fetched, perhaps we could examine the CCP's track record of disinformation, misinformation, and censorship campaigns against its own populace. > Mass Birth-Prevention Strategy. China has simultaneously pursued a dual systematic strategy of forcibly sterilizing Uyghur women of childbearing age and interning Uyghur men of child-bearing years, preventing the regenerative capacity of the group and evincing an intent to biologically destroy the group as such. According to Government statistics and directives, including to “carry out family planning sterilization,” “lower fertility levels,” and ”leave no blind spots,” China is carrying out a well-documented, State-funded birth-prevention campaign targeting women of childbearing age in Uyghur-concentrated areas with mass forced sterilization, abortions, and IUD placements. China explicitly admits the purpose of these campaigns is to ensure that Uyghur women are “no longer baby-making machines.” - https://newlinesinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/Chinas-Breaches-of-the-GC3.pdf https://newlinesinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/Chinas-Brea... Perhaps "the free press" who are largely citing reports by experts such as the one above, are in fact more accurate than Chinese state propaganda? > Just like the awesome judiciary shouldn't lead to world-leading incarceration rates. You're deflecting again.

throwaway894345 6y ago

To be clear, my response was satire. You suggested that the Supreme Court was functionally the same as the CCP politburo on the basis that there is some non-zero amount of politicking in either case. I pointed out that the same was true of Anglo-Saxon England to expose the ridiculousness of the equivalence, but you're ignoring that point and making a new point, utterly unrelated to the previous one (in fairness I would also abandon that position)? Something to the effect of, "Because some Americans and Anglo-Saxons thought their systems were the bees-knees, they must be equally terrible"? Am I getting this right?

refenestrator 6y ago
Let me come at it this way. You're hyping up our court system and constitution, freedom, all of that. Yet we imprison Americans at a much higher rate than Chinese imprison their own. And that's before I even get into how we treat foreigners. So how much are all those great rhetorical adjectives worth when the rubber hits the road?
- throwaway894345 6y ago
  The “constitution” isn’t an adjective, and I didn’t mention “freedom”. The US incarceration rates are suboptimal, but China is operating actual concentration camps and sterilizing women based on their ethnicity. In 2020 the US had a record year with respect to brutality against journalists and it still would have been the best year China has had in at least the last 70 years. China still practices slavery in all but name. 60 years ago the CCP was waging genocide against its own people. If “corruption” feels too abstract for you, hopefully those things can provide some context about “where the rubber meets the road”. If you still think these things are on the same level as the US’s problems, we aren’t going to be able to have a productive debate.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - refenestrator 6y ago
    So, just to pick one of your accusations there -- forced sterilization in China is a global policy if you have too many kids. It's not ethnically targeted, and until recently, minority populations were allowed to have more kids than Han Chinese. This is easily verifiable if you talk to anyone from China. Too many kids, you get sterilized, them's the rules (unless you're rich/connected, of course). So why do our media always report cases involving minorities out of context, creating unfortunate assumptions? Who benefits from that? You'd think the free press would surface the most accurate story, right? Just like the awesome judiciary shouldn't lead to world-leading incarceration rates. This set of gaps is what I'm talking about, not China's sins or virtues.
    - throwaway894345 6y ago
      > It's not ethnically targeted Citation needed. > This is easily verifiable if you talk to anyone from China. Is it conceivable that China is not entirely honest with its citizens about its various atrocities? If this seems far-fetched, perhaps we could examine the CCP's track record of disinformation, misinformation, and censorship campaigns against its own populace. > Mass Birth-Prevention Strategy. China has simultaneously pursued a dual systematic strategy of forcibly sterilizing Uyghur women of childbearing age and interning Uyghur men of child-bearing years, preventing the regenerative capacity of the group and evincing an intent to biologically destroy the group as such. According to Government statistics and directives, including to “carry out family planning sterilization,” “lower fertility levels,” and ”leave no blind spots,” China is carrying out a well-documented, State-funded birth-prevention campaign targeting women of childbearing age in Uyghur-concentrated areas with mass forced sterilization, abortions, and IUD placements. China explicitly admits the purpose of these campaigns is to ensure that Uyghur women are “no longer baby-making machines.” - https://newlinesinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/Chinas-Breaches-of-the-GC3.pdf https://newlinesinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/Chinas-Brea... Perhaps "the free press" who are largely citing reports by experts such as the one above, are in fact more accurate than Chinese state propaganda? > Just like the awesome judiciary shouldn't lead to world-leading incarceration rates. You're deflecting again.