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Why should the vehicle manufacturer need to be involved? As someone who owns an EV, why shouldn't I be able to create a Tesla account, link my credit card to i

Why should the vehicle manufacturer need to be involved? As someone who owns an EV, why shouldn't I be able to create a Tesla account, link my credit card to it, and use the superchargers to charge my non-Tesla vehicle? The charging networks that aren't owned by vehicle manufacturers follow this model, it seems weird that Tesla isn't willing to do the same.

WorldMaker 6y ago
Worse, why would you need to create a Tesla account and "link a credit card to it" in the first place? The article doesn't make the point strong enough: but the charging networks are currently all so focused on "accounts" and "memberships", when they could just as easily add an NFC panel and accept Apple Pay/Visa Pay/Samsung Pay/whatever Google Pay is called this year, or even just old fashioned card swipes or new-ish fashioned EMV chip inserts. Tesla isn't the only one guilty of this "accounts and memberships on networks" mentality, it seems to be infecting all of the American networks right now. (Why are we over-complicating all of this so very hard?)
- natch 6y ago
  >Why are we over-complicating all of this so very hard? What is complicated about this? 1) open charge port 2) plug in cable 3) walk away Your system with NFC and swiping and scanning cards and chips sounds more complicated to me. I even had to add "open charge port" and "walk away" in order to come up with 3 steps here… how much less complicated could it be?
  - WorldMaker 6y ago
    You are missing: 2.1) Pass the Owner's Club test. "You can't charge here because you aren't a Tesla owner." "You can't charge here because you aren't a Rivian owner." 2.2) Pass the Private Club Membership test. "You can't charge here because you don't have a Shell Power Club Membership." "You can't charge here because you are behind on your Bowling Team Dues." Those are two big problems in the article and the threads here that "Plug and Charge" (as ideal as it sounds) doesn't currently solve, and isn't a problem with existing gas pumps because a standard credit card swipe doesn't know what kind of car you own, stopped being strong-armed "private clubs" decades ago. "Plug and Charge" sounds great if it works, the concern is that right now the emphasis is on creating private clubs with "Plug and Charge" and that's over-complicated the standards, that's why we are still talking about a "Tesla charging network" and a "Rivian charging network" and "Electrify America" and "Charge Point" and "Bowling League Electric network" and "Shell Oil Presents Electric Charging for Dumb Americans" instead of just "American electric charging options" as a fungible pool.
    - natch 6y ago
      Fair points (I didn’t downvote you btw, that’s others). I don’t like the bundling of hardware and services either. But in Tesla’s case I do feel they deserve some credit and benefits for paving the way here at great cost and in the face of a lot of naysayers. I do enjoy that I can charge anywhere, and don’t want to see exclusive networks. That being said, we need real solutions on the ground, which takes money. Consumers keep complaining “Teslas are expensive”... well, good charging infrastructure does cost money, and what you are asking for costs money. We paid some of that money when we bought our car. “Expensive” as a term in this case reflects broken thinking that does not reckon with reality. You didn’t use the word but it’s a common thing. Global climate change is not going to be a cost free event. Might as well get used to it, and be willing to share the costs a bit by not cheaping out on a bad car that isn’t helping build a charging network, closed or open.
natch 6y ago
A lot of things seem weird when you don't think them through. That is quite a sense of entitlement, to ask to be able to use the network with a random car that does not have the proper internal equipment. Tesla made a better connector, early on. It offered to other car manufacturers the opportunity to join together in funding the network. Other car manufacturers declined, and continue to decline, as is their right. Why does the manufacturer need to be involved? Well there is equipment required inside the car, which is too big to be simply an adapter. This equipment costs some money, but as I understand it, it makes the car more energy efficient. This may be part of why other brands have poor relative efficiency, dragging around more battery weight for less range. Tesla has to pay for this better equipment, which gets added on to the price of the car, but then you get the money back in better driving, better energy usage, and a better charging network, as well as the ability to charge at all most other networks. Other manufacturers want their cars to appear cheaper, so they cut costs, and users pay the price in daily use instead of in the initial price tag. Why would you buy a car that costs $10,000 more? Most people don't go the extra step and think through that there might be some actual reasons to do so, and their investment of that extra money might be wise. The thinking just stops at the number. I am glad that random people who think like this can't just bring their own super cheap DIY / bought on Amazon / Ebay / Aliexpress sketch Frankenstein AC/DC converters and adapters, which may not have proper protection mechanisms, and plug in. The network has been very reliable and I would not want to see that change. When a car manufacturer is involved, there are at least safety measures, proper design, and recourse and a feedback look for improvements if anything goes wrong. I mean, this is basic stuff.

WorldMaker 6y ago

Worse, why would you need to create a Tesla account and "link a credit card to it" in the first place? The article doesn't make the point strong enough: but the charging networks are currently all so focused on "accounts" and "memberships", when they could just as easily add an NFC panel and accept Apple Pay/Visa Pay/Samsung Pay/whatever Google Pay is called this year, or even just old fashioned card swipes or new-ish fashioned EMV chip inserts. Tesla isn't the only one guilty of this "accounts and memberships on networks" mentality, it seems to be infecting all of the American networks right now. (Why are we over-complicating all of this so very hard?)

natch 6y ago
>Why are we over-complicating all of this so very hard? What is complicated about this? 1) open charge port 2) plug in cable 3) walk away Your system with NFC and swiping and scanning cards and chips sounds more complicated to me. I even had to add "open charge port" and "walk away" in order to come up with 3 steps here… how much less complicated could it be?
- WorldMaker 6y ago
  You are missing: 2.1) Pass the Owner's Club test. "You can't charge here because you aren't a Tesla owner." "You can't charge here because you aren't a Rivian owner." 2.2) Pass the Private Club Membership test. "You can't charge here because you don't have a Shell Power Club Membership." "You can't charge here because you are behind on your Bowling Team Dues." Those are two big problems in the article and the threads here that "Plug and Charge" (as ideal as it sounds) doesn't currently solve, and isn't a problem with existing gas pumps because a standard credit card swipe doesn't know what kind of car you own, stopped being strong-armed "private clubs" decades ago. "Plug and Charge" sounds great if it works, the concern is that right now the emphasis is on creating private clubs with "Plug and Charge" and that's over-complicated the standards, that's why we are still talking about a "Tesla charging network" and a "Rivian charging network" and "Electrify America" and "Charge Point" and "Bowling League Electric network" and "Shell Oil Presents Electric Charging for Dumb Americans" instead of just "American electric charging options" as a fungible pool.
  - natch 6y ago
    Fair points (I didn’t downvote you btw, that’s others). I don’t like the bundling of hardware and services either. But in Tesla’s case I do feel they deserve some credit and benefits for paving the way here at great cost and in the face of a lot of naysayers. I do enjoy that I can charge anywhere, and don’t want to see exclusive networks. That being said, we need real solutions on the ground, which takes money. Consumers keep complaining “Teslas are expensive”... well, good charging infrastructure does cost money, and what you are asking for costs money. We paid some of that money when we bought our car. “Expensive” as a term in this case reflects broken thinking that does not reckon with reality. You didn’t use the word but it’s a common thing. Global climate change is not going to be a cost free event. Might as well get used to it, and be willing to share the costs a bit by not cheaping out on a bad car that isn’t helping build a charging network, closed or open.

natch 6y ago

A lot of things seem weird when you don't think them through. That is quite a sense of entitlement, to ask to be able to use the network with a random car that does not have the proper internal equipment. Tesla made a better connector, early on. It offered to other car manufacturers the opportunity to join together in funding the network. Other car manufacturers declined, and continue to decline, as is their right. Why does the manufacturer need to be involved? Well there is equipment required inside the car, which is too big to be simply an adapter. This equipment costs some money, but as I understand it, it makes the car more energy efficient. This may be part of why other brands have poor relative efficiency, dragging around more battery weight for less range. Tesla has to pay for this better equipment, which gets added on to the price of the car, but then you get the money back in better driving, better energy usage, and a better charging network, as well as the ability to charge at all most other networks. Other manufacturers want their cars to appear cheaper, so they cut costs, and users pay the price in daily use instead of in the initial price tag. Why would you buy a car that costs $10,000 more? Most people don't go the extra step and think through that there might be some actual reasons to do so, and their investment of that extra money might be wise. The thinking just stops at the number. I am glad that random people who think like this can't just bring their own super cheap DIY / bought on Amazon / Ebay / Aliexpress sketch Frankenstein AC/DC converters and adapters, which may not have proper protection mechanisms, and plug in. The network has been very reliable and I would not want to see that change. When a car manufacturer is involved, there are at least safety measures, proper design, and recourse and a feedback look for improvements if anything goes wrong. I mean, this is basic stuff.