4 ms·

I watched sports then and watch them now. I just love to see awesome athletes who have honed their bodies and reflexes to such a crazy degree do things I could

by sethc2 6y ago

I watched sports then and watch them now. I just love to see awesome athletes who have honed their bodies and reflexes to such a crazy degree do things I could never do. The interjection of social justice issues hasn’t yet taken anything away from the joy of the game from what I’ve seen. Kneeling for the anthem, wearing armbands with messages doesn’t change any of that. If they start saying we need more diversity in sports and pay athletes who aren’t the best because of their skin color or sexual orientation I’d be annoyed. If someone is gay or straight or white or black and is the best at his position but he doesn’t get a job because of his orientation or skin color then I’ll stop watching. The only thing I hate is how many athletes who have such short 3 year windows have half their income taxed for those three years then go on to work “normal” jobs for the next 30 years, and someone who ultimately made the same income over 30 years at a high paying “normal” job got taxed so much less over the same time span.

jariel 6y ago
The interjection of SJ makes the moment 'very serious and contemplative'. Like being in Church, listening to a Sermon. That's the complete opposite of sports where people spectate to literally get away from controversy, 'serious' things. For many Americans, especially men, it's their '2 hour safe space' where they can have a beer and not worry. Imagine if you're doing Yoga, and the well meaning instructor starts in about a rant about the importance of 'American Defence Spending'. Most progressives might have to agree with that on some level, but it's the last place they want to hear about it. Or even BLM for that matter. The worst part is that the popular antagonism towards the keeling is misrepresented as a general malaise towards 'Social Justice' - which is generally false - as if to say the people having dinner interrupted by slightly violent BLM protesters must be 'anti Black' or whatever. It's reasonable that athlete's want to use their voice for change, and I think most people would accept that, but they way they've gone about it is wrong. I don't think many people realize how much 'bubble thinking' is going on, it's really bad. I've lost interest in so many things 'American' I feel almost everything is inundated with culture war toxicity from every side.
- ljp_206 6y ago
  I agree with you that our society is rife with culture war toxicity. But I'm confused with the whole 'shut up and dribble' mentality. Sure, sports fans may not want politics to bleed into their sport-viewing time, but as long as athletes do not exist in a vacuum, what do they expect athletes to do? Be mindless entertainers? Ignore their conscience and pretend like they have no qualms with the status quo when they are on the national stage? > It's reasonable that athlete's want to use their voice for change, and I think most people would accept that, but they way they've gone about it is wrong. What are the acceptable ways to use one's voice for change? If that question is too broad, what is the acceptable way for an athlete on the national level to use their voice for change?
  - jariel 6y ago
    So I think anything outside of the arena would be great. I'm cynical about Kaep for example - his wife Tweeted that 'NFL owners are like slavers' which is possibly the most toxic and insulting thing a player's wife could say, and that the media supported her on it tells me there is a problem. He makes a big name for himself lighting up controversy. But let's take a guy like Kaep and assume totally 'goodwill and intent': Anything with the team logo or directly at gametime that is controversial is out of bounds. It's not his place to use that forum - much like you or I couldn't use our workplace to do something that upset a lot of customers - we'd be fired. Anything off field is great: Social reach outs, Television appearances, testifying in Congress, rallying people to protest, working with communities, governance. With the team - he could 'work with them on something material' for example direct programs by teams to help with the community. I think one example would be to literally get players and cops to sit down - behind closed doors - and talk. Cops will listen to sports heroes. Also, having a black stripe on uniforms etc. is a nice touch to signal support of a movement, that's not remotely antagonizing. And FYI nobody should have to stand for the flag. Jehova's Witnesses, Mennonites etc. don't believe that God's Children should be divided by nationalism. They won't serve in the military for that reason either. So - sitting it out in the locker room would be perfectly fine. What Lebron has done seems mostly in bounds to me - except have some have noted on this thread it's quite hypocritical to be fully BLM but to completely tow the CCP line even if he has obviously more affinity for one form of protest ... it's hard to have full integrity when you're just raising a fuss over your own thing. I think it would have worked out better with a smarter touch, and I honestly don't fully buy guys like Kaep's intentions. He seems a little bit Trumpish to me, i.e. there's a layer of 'self serving' to all of it.
gamblor956 6y ago
The only thing I hate is how many athletes who have such short 3 year windows have half their income taxed for those three years then go on to work “normal” jobs for the next 30 years, and someone who ultimately made the same income over 30 years at a high paying “normal” job got taxed so much less over the same time span. Athletes do not get taxed on "half their income." Each bracket of income is taxed at a progressively higher rate, so the first $10k for everyone is taxed at the same 10% rate. The next $30k for everyone is taxed at the same 12% rate. The next $45k for everyone is taxed at the same 22% rate, etc. The highest bracket is 37%, and only the dollars above ~$520k are subject to that 37% rate. Even including state income taxes, only persons making more than $600k are subject to the highest theoretical rate (which is below 50%), and even then only on the dollars earned in excess of $600k. So, for example, if Superstar BBaller earns $601k in wages for playing for the LA Hoopers, he pays $58k in taxes to CA (the mathematical total of the progressive lower-taxed brackets), plus $123 for the $1k over $600k. He pays the feds approximately $150k for the lower-taxed brackets, plus $30k on the $101k in excess of the $520k threshold for the highest-taxed bracket. And even that example overstates the taxes he pays, since it excludes deductions, tax credits, state tax credits, etc., that would lower the actual tax paid.
- geoduck14 6y ago
  That is a 39% tax rate. That feels like a pretty big percent.
  - gamblor956 6y ago
    That is a 39% rate on the income they make over $500k. That income was made possible by the laws and government activities that made people willing to spend $100/ticket or more to sit in a stadium/arena and watch the athlete play for an hour while millions of others tune in from the safety of their homes during their leisure time. If the athlete doesn't like having a low 39% tax rate, they are free to move to Europe, where the same income is taxed at over 50%, or to Asia, where they won't pay as much in tax but they would also be making considerably less money before and after tax.
    - 6y ago

by sethc2 6y ago

jariel 6y ago

The interjection of SJ makes the moment 'very serious and contemplative'. Like being in Church, listening to a Sermon. That's the complete opposite of sports where people spectate to literally get away from controversy, 'serious' things. For many Americans, especially men, it's their '2 hour safe space' where they can have a beer and not worry. Imagine if you're doing Yoga, and the well meaning instructor starts in about a rant about the importance of 'American Defence Spending'. Most progressives might have to agree with that on some level, but it's the last place they want to hear about it. Or even BLM for that matter. The worst part is that the popular antagonism towards the keeling is misrepresented as a general malaise towards 'Social Justice' - which is generally false - as if to say the people having dinner interrupted by slightly violent BLM protesters must be 'anti Black' or whatever. It's reasonable that athlete's want to use their voice for change, and I think most people would accept that, but they way they've gone about it is wrong. I don't think many people realize how much 'bubble thinking' is going on, it's really bad. I've lost interest in so many things 'American' I feel almost everything is inundated with culture war toxicity from every side.

ljp_206 6y ago
I agree with you that our society is rife with culture war toxicity. But I'm confused with the whole 'shut up and dribble' mentality. Sure, sports fans may not want politics to bleed into their sport-viewing time, but as long as athletes do not exist in a vacuum, what do they expect athletes to do? Be mindless entertainers? Ignore their conscience and pretend like they have no qualms with the status quo when they are on the national stage? > It's reasonable that athlete's want to use their voice for change, and I think most people would accept that, but they way they've gone about it is wrong. What are the acceptable ways to use one's voice for change? If that question is too broad, what is the acceptable way for an athlete on the national level to use their voice for change?
- jariel 6y ago
  So I think anything outside of the arena would be great. I'm cynical about Kaep for example - his wife Tweeted that 'NFL owners are like slavers' which is possibly the most toxic and insulting thing a player's wife could say, and that the media supported her on it tells me there is a problem. He makes a big name for himself lighting up controversy. But let's take a guy like Kaep and assume totally 'goodwill and intent': Anything with the team logo or directly at gametime that is controversial is out of bounds. It's not his place to use that forum - much like you or I couldn't use our workplace to do something that upset a lot of customers - we'd be fired. Anything off field is great: Social reach outs, Television appearances, testifying in Congress, rallying people to protest, working with communities, governance. With the team - he could 'work with them on something material' for example direct programs by teams to help with the community. I think one example would be to literally get players and cops to sit down - behind closed doors - and talk. Cops will listen to sports heroes. Also, having a black stripe on uniforms etc. is a nice touch to signal support of a movement, that's not remotely antagonizing. And FYI nobody should have to stand for the flag. Jehova's Witnesses, Mennonites etc. don't believe that God's Children should be divided by nationalism. They won't serve in the military for that reason either. So - sitting it out in the locker room would be perfectly fine. What Lebron has done seems mostly in bounds to me - except have some have noted on this thread it's quite hypocritical to be fully BLM but to completely tow the CCP line even if he has obviously more affinity for one form of protest ... it's hard to have full integrity when you're just raising a fuss over your own thing. I think it would have worked out better with a smarter touch, and I honestly don't fully buy guys like Kaep's intentions. He seems a little bit Trumpish to me, i.e. there's a layer of 'self serving' to all of it.

gamblor956 6y ago

The only thing I hate is how many athletes who have such short 3 year windows have half their income taxed for those three years then go on to work “normal” jobs for the next 30 years, and someone who ultimately made the same income over 30 years at a high paying “normal” job got taxed so much less over the same time span. Athletes do not get taxed on "half their income." Each bracket of income is taxed at a progressively higher rate, so the first $10k for everyone is taxed at the same 10% rate. The next $30k for everyone is taxed at the same 12% rate. The next $45k for everyone is taxed at the same 22% rate, etc. The highest bracket is 37%, and only the dollars above ~$520k are subject to that 37% rate. Even including state income taxes, only persons making more than $600k are subject to the highest theoretical rate (which is below 50%), and even then only on the dollars earned in excess of $600k. So, for example, if Superstar BBaller earns $601k in wages for playing for the LA Hoopers, he pays $58k in taxes to CA (the mathematical total of the progressive lower-taxed brackets), plus $123 for the $1k over $600k. He pays the feds approximately $150k for the lower-taxed brackets, plus $30k on the $101k in excess of the $520k threshold for the highest-taxed bracket. And even that example overstates the taxes he pays, since it excludes deductions, tax credits, state tax credits, etc., that would lower the actual tax paid.

geoduck14 6y ago
That is a 39% tax rate. That feels like a pretty big percent.
- gamblor956 6y ago
  That is a 39% rate on the income they make over $500k. That income was made possible by the laws and government activities that made people willing to spend $100/ticket or more to sit in a stadium/arena and watch the athlete play for an hour while millions of others tune in from the safety of their homes during their leisure time. If the athlete doesn't like having a low 39% tax rate, they are free to move to Europe, where the same income is taxed at over 50%, or to Asia, where they won't pay as much in tax but they would also be making considerably less money before and after tax.
  - 6y ago