4 ms·

Going to the toilet once per hour for 1-3 minutes is not going to allow a company to pay subminimum wages when the starting rate is $15/hour. It is a simple, ba

Going to the toilet once per hour for 1-3 minutes is not going to allow a company to pay subminimum wages when the starting rate is $15/hour. It is a simple, basic, /reasonable accommodation/ necessary for me to be able to work, at any workplace, that Amazon is legally obligated to provide. In fact, it is the only accommodation that I would need to work at an Amazon warehouse! The law you mention above is exploited by companies utilizing sheltered work environments (i.e. Salvation Army) for people who typically have severe disabilities that are often both developmental and intellectual, with respect to classification. Obviously companies that exploit human labor in this particular context are morally bereft. The key concept here is reasonable accommodation. It is not some abstract concept or use-case, like the one you pointed out above.

Loughla 6y ago
Again, I agree with you. I do want to point out, though that those are not abstract concept or limited use cases. Any business, including competitive employment positions, can apply for that license, as long as they meet the parameters laid our in the law and regulation. I'm assuming that because of its size, Amazon would be excluded. Honestly, though, I am not familiar with the application process as we refuse to use it. That being said, I was genuinely just trying to point out that it is, in fact, legal to pay individuals with disabilities less than an individual without a disability. Language is important. Claiming that trying to pay individual b (who has a disability) any less than what you would pay individual a (who does not) for any work is automatically disability discrimination is just wrong. I've been sued several times by people who believe that fact, and have been proven right in my statements by the courts. I don't like it, but I don't control the law. Please note, I am not saying your needs wouldn't be an appropriate accommodation from Amazon. Please note that I am not saying it is morally okay to pay individuals with disabilities less. Maybe I'm being too pedantic. But honestly, the number of people who genuinely believe that they are entitled to get literally whatever they want however they want it, regardless of any other factor, simply because of their disability is just astounding. Reasonable is the important part of accommodation.
- disabled 6y ago
  > Maybe I'm being too pedantic. But honestly, the number of people who genuinely believe that they are entitled to get literally whatever they want however they want it, regardless of any other factor, simply because of their disability is just astounding. As I said, it's life-threatening, and I can assure you that autonomic dysreflexia is one of the worst feelings that one can go through as a human. This issue is solvable via a basic reasonable accommodation, that I have a right to get. I also have a decent work ethic, and I understand that I am paid to work--and that is the only thing that I should be doing at work. This is about common decency and basic human rights, not about entitlement. The fact that you are conflating the right to use restroom (a basic human need), at a consistent, non-excessive time interval (so that I do not experience a life-threatening state) to be some sort of entitlement is absolutely ridiculous. I hope you are not a lawyer, because if you are, you really need to change your perception around disability related matters. However, I will be mindful about the language I use, so thank you. And no, I would not be looking for some settlement, which would be ridiculous, foolish, and incredibly short-sighted. The issue I am trying to address here, besides the matter of disability rights, is just human decency and respect towards others. Amazon does not exalt such values as a company, but especially so by how it treats its employees.
  - Loughla 6y ago
    >This is about common decency and basic human rights, not about entitlement. The fact that you are conflating the right to use restroom (a basic human need), at a consistent, non-excessive time interval (so that I do not experience a life-threatening state) to be some sort of entitlement is absolutely ridiculous. I really want to be clear. I am not doing that. I am genuinely not saying you are one of those people, and I apologize for my words if that's how it sounded. Your case sounds pretty straight forward - just make sure there's a bathroom somewhere close. My experience is that many individuals in the disability world (keep in mind I work with youth and young adults and their parents/advocates) are very entitled. They believe there are no boundaries on what is an acceptable, and reasonable accommodation. That is what I was getting at. That statement legitimately had nothing to do with you. It was a statement. I get defensive about this because I genuinely get sued three or four times a year for access complaints that are completely unfounded. I am a huge advocate for disability rights, and believe the current system of basic access is inadequate. But I am also sick of being accused of discrimination because I don't treat every individual that I work with like a small doll made of crystal.

Loughla 6y ago

Again, I agree with you. I do want to point out, though that those are not abstract concept or limited use cases. Any business, including competitive employment positions, can apply for that license, as long as they meet the parameters laid our in the law and regulation. I'm assuming that because of its size, Amazon would be excluded. Honestly, though, I am not familiar with the application process as we refuse to use it. That being said, I was genuinely just trying to point out that it is, in fact, legal to pay individuals with disabilities less than an individual without a disability. Language is important. Claiming that trying to pay individual b (who has a disability) any less than what you would pay individual a (who does not) for any work is automatically disability discrimination is just wrong. I've been sued several times by people who believe that fact, and have been proven right in my statements by the courts. I don't like it, but I don't control the law. Please note, I am not saying your needs wouldn't be an appropriate accommodation from Amazon. Please note that I am not saying it is morally okay to pay individuals with disabilities less. Maybe I'm being too pedantic. But honestly, the number of people who genuinely believe that they are entitled to get literally whatever they want however they want it, regardless of any other factor, simply because of their disability is just astounding. Reasonable is the important part of accommodation.

disabled 6y ago
> Maybe I'm being too pedantic. But honestly, the number of people who genuinely believe that they are entitled to get literally whatever they want however they want it, regardless of any other factor, simply because of their disability is just astounding. As I said, it's life-threatening, and I can assure you that autonomic dysreflexia is one of the worst feelings that one can go through as a human. This issue is solvable via a basic reasonable accommodation, that I have a right to get. I also have a decent work ethic, and I understand that I am paid to work--and that is the only thing that I should be doing at work. This is about common decency and basic human rights, not about entitlement. The fact that you are conflating the right to use restroom (a basic human need), at a consistent, non-excessive time interval (so that I do not experience a life-threatening state) to be some sort of entitlement is absolutely ridiculous. I hope you are not a lawyer, because if you are, you really need to change your perception around disability related matters. However, I will be mindful about the language I use, so thank you. And no, I would not be looking for some settlement, which would be ridiculous, foolish, and incredibly short-sighted. The issue I am trying to address here, besides the matter of disability rights, is just human decency and respect towards others. Amazon does not exalt such values as a company, but especially so by how it treats its employees.
- Loughla 6y ago
  >This is about common decency and basic human rights, not about entitlement. The fact that you are conflating the right to use restroom (a basic human need), at a consistent, non-excessive time interval (so that I do not experience a life-threatening state) to be some sort of entitlement is absolutely ridiculous. I really want to be clear. I am not doing that. I am genuinely not saying you are one of those people, and I apologize for my words if that's how it sounded. Your case sounds pretty straight forward - just make sure there's a bathroom somewhere close. My experience is that many individuals in the disability world (keep in mind I work with youth and young adults and their parents/advocates) are very entitled. They believe there are no boundaries on what is an acceptable, and reasonable accommodation. That is what I was getting at. That statement legitimately had nothing to do with you. It was a statement. I get defensive about this because I genuinely get sued three or four times a year for access complaints that are completely unfounded. I am a huge advocate for disability rights, and believe the current system of basic access is inadequate. But I am also sick of being accused of discrimination because I don't treat every individual that I work with like a small doll made of crystal.