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It is still quite likely he won't be repeating the mistake though. Prison is something else than just money.

by amenod 6y ago

kbenson 6y ago
I think that depends on what he thinks the mistake was. To him, was the mistake cheating, getting caught, or being in position to be made an example of? He may no make the mistake again, but I'm not sure that means he won't cheat again in a similar way, given the chance.
- Cullinet 6y ago
  can I prosecute ex parte the rest of the taxpayers and citizens and asthmatics the administrators supposed to have been in charge of ensuring compliance with emissions standards for failing so incredibly to do their jobs? or is there no responsibility held by whoever we place in office responsible for seeing our futures aren't squandered? how is it possible to ignore that obligation and duty when we've only just started to admit that we have to act against such universal polluting? or has the last encumbant of 2000 Pensylvania Av. just pulled off the brilliant trick of assuming all the blame for the failure of government future and past as well? (brit with American family and too embarrassed to speak of our politicians presently)
  - headmelted 6y ago
    I’m not sure if the downvotes here are because of your Trump allusions or not, but you do raise a pretty important point. Where was the oversight? How was it that an open secret of this magnitude didn’t incur the wrath of environmental agencies in the countries affected? Is it possible that no-one outside of the industry knew about this and that everyone in the industry, even in competing firms, just kept this secret for years without anything leaking out? It doesn’t seem plausible that this wasn’t known about and ignored by regulators in at least some regions.
    - jay_kyburz 6y ago
      I agree, the people enforcing these laws are just as negligent. Why did the let the manufactures anywhere near the testing process. I would like to think that now, after the scandal, they are selecting and testing cars that have recently been sold. The cars that are actually being driven around.
methodin 6y ago
Is the rest of the world as harsh as the U.S. in that a prison sentence is basically the end of your career? Would this guy have a shot at being an executive again?
- kevbin 6y ago
  Is there evidence that white collar criminal convictions are career ending in the USA?
- querez 6y ago
  Depends: given that one can easily google his name and find out about this, it's a bit unlikely he'll be appointed to such a prominent position again. But in general, a prison sentence would not be the end of your career here in the EU. Anecdotally, when I was hob-hunting last time, not one company (out of ~ a dozen) asked for a criminal record before making an offer, and only one company informed me that I'd be required to hand one in afterwards. Of course, the others might've asked for it at a later stage, but at least at the company I went with (as well as all my previous employers) hired me without knowing whether I had any priors. As far as I understand, this depends on the industry, though.
headmelted 6y ago
I’m sure it’s awful for normal folk like us but in his case (and again this is uninformed speculation), where he’s essentially the fall guy for a scandal that was supporting one of the world’s largest economies (and a large component of several others), it’s not that hard to imagine his experience being just a bit different than what a normal inmate should expect. He also likely knows a lot about how many of his superiors were in the loop on this, so I assume he was well compensated for his inconvenience.
- wongarsu 6y ago
  He was in "Offener Vollzug" (~open prison). That means he sleeps in a normal prison cell (that usually looks like [1], so not all that bad) in a regular prison, gets breakfeast, leaves prison to go to work, then goes straight back to prison to participate in the prison's evening activities (sport, recreational, educational, etc). He might get vacation (from staying in prison), and can visit his family on weekends. It's not that unusual in Germany, at any time about 16% of prisoners are in "offener Vollzug", and it is a great tool to reintegrate prisoners into society. It is limited to first offenders with no flight risk and no risk that they use their time out of prison to do crime. Of course no matter how useful of a tool it is generally, it does make the prison sentences of some well known people look like a bit of a joke. 1: https://www.zdf.de/dokumentation/zdfinfo-doku/knast-in-deutschland-herz-schmerz-suehne-102.html https://www.zdf.de/dokumentation/zdfinfo-doku/knast-in-deuts...
  - lupire 6y ago
    What are the 84% that aren't in open prison? Poor people who don't have a corporate apparatus to hide their crimes behind? Volkswagen emissions killed people with smog. VW are homicidal.
    - pvorb 6y ago
      Corruption is a real problem in Germany and auto makers have a lot of influence on politicians, so the corporate and the political apparatus are interested in hiding these crimes, because a large part of our economy depends on them.

It is still quite likely he won't be repeating the mistake though. Prison is something else than just money.

by amenod 6y ago

It is still quite likely he won't be repeating the mistake though. Prison is something else than just money.

I think that depends on what he thinks the mistake was. To him, was the mistake cheating, getting caught, or being in position to be made an example of? He may no make the mistake again, but I'm not sure that means he won't cheat again in a similar way, given the chance.

Cullinet 6y ago
can I prosecute ex parte the rest of the taxpayers and citizens and asthmatics the administrators supposed to have been in charge of ensuring compliance with emissions standards for failing so incredibly to do their jobs? or is there no responsibility held by whoever we place in office responsible for seeing our futures aren't squandered? how is it possible to ignore that obligation and duty when we've only just started to admit that we have to act against such universal polluting? or has the last encumbant of 2000 Pensylvania Av. just pulled off the brilliant trick of assuming all the blame for the failure of government future and past as well? (brit with American family and too embarrassed to speak of our politicians presently)
- headmelted 6y ago
  I’m not sure if the downvotes here are because of your Trump allusions or not, but you do raise a pretty important point. Where was the oversight? How was it that an open secret of this magnitude didn’t incur the wrath of environmental agencies in the countries affected? Is it possible that no-one outside of the industry knew about this and that everyone in the industry, even in competing firms, just kept this secret for years without anything leaking out? It doesn’t seem plausible that this wasn’t known about and ignored by regulators in at least some regions.
  - jay_kyburz 6y ago
    I agree, the people enforcing these laws are just as negligent. Why did the let the manufactures anywhere near the testing process. I would like to think that now, after the scandal, they are selecting and testing cars that have recently been sold. The cars that are actually being driven around.

methodin 6y ago

Is the rest of the world as harsh as the U.S. in that a prison sentence is basically the end of your career? Would this guy have a shot at being an executive again?

kevbin 6y ago
Is there evidence that white collar criminal convictions are career ending in the USA?
querez 6y ago
Depends: given that one can easily google his name and find out about this, it's a bit unlikely he'll be appointed to such a prominent position again. But in general, a prison sentence would not be the end of your career here in the EU. Anecdotally, when I was hob-hunting last time, not one company (out of ~ a dozen) asked for a criminal record before making an offer, and only one company informed me that I'd be required to hand one in afterwards. Of course, the others might've asked for it at a later stage, but at least at the company I went with (as well as all my previous employers) hired me without knowing whether I had any priors. As far as I understand, this depends on the industry, though.

headmelted 6y ago

I’m sure it’s awful for normal folk like us but in his case (and again this is uninformed speculation), where he’s essentially the fall guy for a scandal that was supporting one of the world’s largest economies (and a large component of several others), it’s not that hard to imagine his experience being just a bit different than what a normal inmate should expect. He also likely knows a lot about how many of his superiors were in the loop on this, so I assume he was well compensated for his inconvenience.

wongarsu 6y ago
He was in "Offener Vollzug" (~open prison). That means he sleeps in a normal prison cell (that usually looks like [1], so not all that bad) in a regular prison, gets breakfeast, leaves prison to go to work, then goes straight back to prison to participate in the prison's evening activities (sport, recreational, educational, etc). He might get vacation (from staying in prison), and can visit his family on weekends. It's not that unusual in Germany, at any time about 16% of prisoners are in "offener Vollzug", and it is a great tool to reintegrate prisoners into society. It is limited to first offenders with no flight risk and no risk that they use their time out of prison to do crime. Of course no matter how useful of a tool it is generally, it does make the prison sentences of some well known people look like a bit of a joke. 1: https://www.zdf.de/dokumentation/zdfinfo-doku/knast-in-deutschland-herz-schmerz-suehne-102.html https://www.zdf.de/dokumentation/zdfinfo-doku/knast-in-deuts...
- lupire 6y ago
  What are the 84% that aren't in open prison? Poor people who don't have a corporate apparatus to hide their crimes behind? Volkswagen emissions killed people with smog. VW are homicidal.
  - pvorb 6y ago
    Corruption is a real problem in Germany and auto makers have a lot of influence on politicians, so the corporate and the political apparatus are interested in hiding these crimes, because a large part of our economy depends on them.