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> The biggest barrier to spending crypto is still finding merchants that accept it I am a huge fan of BTC and have held some for many years. But it seems to me

by cactus2093 6y ago

> The biggest barrier to spending crypto is still finding merchants that accept it I am a huge fan of BTC and have held some for many years. But it seems to me the reason this hasn't really happened yet is just that it's not really a big problem that needs solving. Why do people need to spend crypto on online purchases, as opposed to converting to fiat and spending that? I'm sure it'll happen eventually, it's not a bad thing to give people more options of how to pay. It just doesn't seem like a huge need for anybody in countries like the US, Canada, UK, Europe, Australia, Japan (which are the vast majority of the market for companies like Paypal, Stripe, and Square).

CryptoPunk 6y ago
Being able to spend crypto at any merchant massively increases the liquidity of crypto - it provides more places where one can convert their crypto assets into goods and services. Reducing dependence on a small number of centralized crypto exchanges for liquidity provision is good for the decentralization and robustness of the crypto market as well. Also fiat networks can be censored by financial institutions and government, as we saw with the financial blockade on WikiLeaks a few years ago, and have seen happen against pro-democracy protestors in Hong Kong recently. Direct merchant acceptance of crypto provides an alternative when such financial controls are put in place. Merchant adoption of crypto is an unmitigated good for crypto, from any perspective you look at it from. It's puzzling to me when some crypto enthusiasts see no point in it, when it is really the entire point of cryptocurrency.
- cactus2093 6y ago
  I would certainly disagree that being able to online shop using Paypal is the whole point of cryptocurrency. Having the ability to easily and securely exchange with others is the whole point, but doing it conveniently on a daily basis over existing payment rails is not the whole point or even that important. If a government decides to censor fiat networks to prevent certain transactions, the fact that paypal accepts bitcoin for those transactions is irrelevant. The company you're buying from as well as Paypall will still need to follow KYC laws and will be obligated not to transact with you. In that scenario you're already fully living outside the law, you'll have to transact as anonymously as possible, exchanging crypto in secret in person or over the dark web or what have you. It doesn't matter whether major above board institutions like Paypal or Stripe accept bitcoin or not.
  - pcthrowaway 6y ago
    If paypal only allowed users to pay for things in USD it would also greatly defeat the purpose of Paypal. Instead, they offer automatic conversion (at a rate favourable to them no doubt) from other currencies. They certainly wouldn't say "If you hold EUR you can take it to a currency exchange and change it for USD, then send it to us". They would have no global hold if they did that. Likewise, barring access to users of a certain national currency damages the global utility of that country's currency; it's silly of them to do that if there are no regulatory obstacles, and I'd argue they're strongly incentivized to find ways around those obstacles. Whether it's paypal or not, it's greatly useful to have some way to pay for things with cryptocurrency, and payment companies have an economic incentive to add support for crypto payments as well

CryptoPunk 6y ago

Being able to spend crypto at any merchant massively increases the liquidity of crypto - it provides more places where one can convert their crypto assets into goods and services. Reducing dependence on a small number of centralized crypto exchanges for liquidity provision is good for the decentralization and robustness of the crypto market as well. Also fiat networks can be censored by financial institutions and government, as we saw with the financial blockade on WikiLeaks a few years ago, and have seen happen against pro-democracy protestors in Hong Kong recently. Direct merchant acceptance of crypto provides an alternative when such financial controls are put in place. Merchant adoption of crypto is an unmitigated good for crypto, from any perspective you look at it from. It's puzzling to me when some crypto enthusiasts see no point in it, when it is really the entire point of cryptocurrency.

cactus2093 6y ago
I would certainly disagree that being able to online shop using Paypal is the whole point of cryptocurrency. Having the ability to easily and securely exchange with others is the whole point, but doing it conveniently on a daily basis over existing payment rails is not the whole point or even that important. If a government decides to censor fiat networks to prevent certain transactions, the fact that paypal accepts bitcoin for those transactions is irrelevant. The company you're buying from as well as Paypall will still need to follow KYC laws and will be obligated not to transact with you. In that scenario you're already fully living outside the law, you'll have to transact as anonymously as possible, exchanging crypto in secret in person or over the dark web or what have you. It doesn't matter whether major above board institutions like Paypal or Stripe accept bitcoin or not.
- pcthrowaway 6y ago
  If paypal only allowed users to pay for things in USD it would also greatly defeat the purpose of Paypal. Instead, they offer automatic conversion (at a rate favourable to them no doubt) from other currencies. They certainly wouldn't say "If you hold EUR you can take it to a currency exchange and change it for USD, then send it to us". They would have no global hold if they did that. Likewise, barring access to users of a certain national currency damages the global utility of that country's currency; it's silly of them to do that if there are no regulatory obstacles, and I'd argue they're strongly incentivized to find ways around those obstacles. Whether it's paypal or not, it's greatly useful to have some way to pay for things with cryptocurrency, and payment companies have an economic incentive to add support for crypto payments as well