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It's easy to knock people for 'lacking critical thinking' but the truth is we're all predisposed to believe what aligns with our personalities and worldviews. A

It's easy to knock people for 'lacking critical thinking' but the truth is we're all predisposed to believe what aligns with our personalities and worldviews. And people like to harp on the idea that we should be teaching critical thinking in schools, but we already do this and we have been teaching it for decades.

Judgmentality 6y ago
> we should be teaching critical thinking in schools, but we already do this and we have been teaching it for decades. This is news to me. What countries are you referencing?
- BitwiseFool 6y ago
  The United States, where I went to school. I also want to apply some critical thinking myself and ask "why wouldn't schools have critical thinking as part of their curriculum"? Teaching critical thinking skills is not some revolutionary idea and it's not like educators want to avoid teaching people how to do it.
  - Judgmentality 6y ago
    I never felt like critical thinking was part of the curriculum in the United States. I've always been kind of amazed how poorly it's taught if it's taught at all. Since we're just comparing anecdata at this point (or at least I am), if you have any data/studies or anything like that it would be appreciated.
    - BitwiseFool 6y ago
      To be honest I don't want to go into JStor to search for studies that support my viewpoint and lob them at you in a game of citation tennis. But, I will distill my viewpoint down as best I can and leave it at this: People claim that critical thinking is not taught in schools because it's an easy claim to make when you perceive that so many other people are thinking uncritically. But, make a claim they disagree with and watch how good they become at it. Everyone falls into a trap of thinking that society at large lacks 'common sense' or 'critical thinking' because we all assume our worldview is true and anyone who disagrees must have deficient thinking. Ultimately I think people are taught how to think critically, but the real problem is when they choose to think critically. And that, I think, is a result of human nature, not lack of education.
      - Judgmentality 6y ago
        Sorry, but I strongly disagree with you. Allow me to respond with my own anecdote. I remember when I was dating a doctor being appalled by her complete inability to think through a problem, and I later learned medical school is basically mass memorization. I am obviously cherry picking medicine here, but if doctors aren't even taught that by the time they're practicing in the United States I think it's fair to say critical thinking is sorely lacking in our education system. She was a neurologist who was unable to help me with my migraines, and I later figured them out on my own using ~drumroll~ critical thinking. I also saw at least a half dozen specialists at prestigious hospitals, all of whom were equally unhelpful in solving my problem. They were all very quick to prescribe pain medication though, in fact it seemed to be the only thing any of them were ever interested in doing. Some of them accused me of lying about my symptoms, and some told me I shouldn't even bother trying to get better. If US doctors - some of the best educated and most highly trained professionals in the world - aren't good at thinking critically about medicine, I'm not confident that it's being taught in the US. In fact I'm quite confident it's not taught in the US (or at least it wasn't). I was never taught critical thinking in a classroom setting, and I have multiple degrees from the US.
        asveikau 6y ago
        You base this on one doctor though. I have enough life experience to know that some doctors are better at their jobs than others. Maybe that's on the individual. Maybe some medical schools are better than others. I don't know what the explanation is. But I don't think you can extrapolate to "US doctors" in the plural.
        nmfisher 6y ago
        I don’t know, this exactly mirrors my experience, and I constantly hear the same from many other people. Sure, it’s not every doctor. But throw a dart at a map and you’re bound to hit one who’s like this more often than not.
        danaris 6y ago
        I have seen enough anecdotes like this about medical school to feel comfortable saying that, at the very least, there is no nationwide systematic effort to teach critical thinking within them or the primary and secondary educational institutions that precede them.
  - creato 6y ago
    > "why wouldn't schools have critical thinking as part of their curriculum"? "Knowledge-Based Education – We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority." Page 13: https://web.archive.org/web/20120629111643/http://s3.amazonaws.com/texasgop_pre/assets/original/2012-Platform-Final.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20120629111643/http://s3.amazona...
hindsightbias 6y ago
Googling for critical thinking curricula and high school district returns Henrico County (VA) on page 5 or 6. One would think if it were integrated with other studies it would be mentioned somewhere other than Edutopia and Walden adverts.
- Loughla 6y ago
  Have you ever dissected a novel in English class? Did you discuss motivations for various historical events in history? Did you talk about theory of public speaking purposes and styles? I did, in a very rural, very underfunded school district - all of those things are critical thinking. It is integrated into other studies. But there tend to not be "This lesson is critical thinking" sorts of headers on the lesson plans. Look for the phrase "lifelong learner". That tends to be where the "critical thinking" lives for many schools.
  - hindsightbias 6y ago
    CT is ambiguously defined and complex in theory and practice. While analysis and evaluation of selected novels is intended to enlighten perspectives idk that curricula is rational or skeptical based on reading lists. Maybe an effect on bias. It’s been awhile, but would wonder how unbiased today’s history books are. I can’t see the State of Texas board being nuanced about the Alamo. I can see a rural district where teachers/schools have much more control over curricula, so enlightment or indoctrination is easier to influence. I dont see this scaling to large administrative/measurement bound districts. How does one test to CT outside perhaps secondary effects of STEM or AP results? It does appear that higher percentages of students are taking AP tests though. Being educated by Jesuits, we started with Socrates/Plato. But looking at my classmates FB feeds I don’t see any evidence of sober CT skills. Skepticism is a synonym of conspiricism in today’s generations. Biases are polar bound.
  - int_19h 6y ago
    My experience with dissecting novels is the opposite - you're expected to contort yourself, and often insult your own intelligence, to make sure that the result of your analysis doesn't deviate from the "correct" one too much.
axguscbklp 6y ago
Also, the nature of most schooling goes against using it to teach critical thinking. Most schooling is forced on the students. It is difficult, though not impossible, for a system that coerces people to also teach those same people critical thinking. There is an inherent contradiction there.

Judgmentality 6y ago

> we should be teaching critical thinking in schools, but we already do this and we have been teaching it for decades. This is news to me. What countries are you referencing?

BitwiseFool 6y ago
The United States, where I went to school. I also want to apply some critical thinking myself and ask "why wouldn't schools have critical thinking as part of their curriculum"? Teaching critical thinking skills is not some revolutionary idea and it's not like educators want to avoid teaching people how to do it.
- Judgmentality 6y ago
  I never felt like critical thinking was part of the curriculum in the United States. I've always been kind of amazed how poorly it's taught if it's taught at all. Since we're just comparing anecdata at this point (or at least I am), if you have any data/studies or anything like that it would be appreciated.
  - BitwiseFool 6y ago
    To be honest I don't want to go into JStor to search for studies that support my viewpoint and lob them at you in a game of citation tennis. But, I will distill my viewpoint down as best I can and leave it at this: People claim that critical thinking is not taught in schools because it's an easy claim to make when you perceive that so many other people are thinking uncritically. But, make a claim they disagree with and watch how good they become at it. Everyone falls into a trap of thinking that society at large lacks 'common sense' or 'critical thinking' because we all assume our worldview is true and anyone who disagrees must have deficient thinking. Ultimately I think people are taught how to think critically, but the real problem is when they choose to think critically. And that, I think, is a result of human nature, not lack of education.
    - Judgmentality 6y ago
      Sorry, but I strongly disagree with you. Allow me to respond with my own anecdote. I remember when I was dating a doctor being appalled by her complete inability to think through a problem, and I later learned medical school is basically mass memorization. I am obviously cherry picking medicine here, but if doctors aren't even taught that by the time they're practicing in the United States I think it's fair to say critical thinking is sorely lacking in our education system. She was a neurologist who was unable to help me with my migraines, and I later figured them out on my own using ~drumroll~ critical thinking. I also saw at least a half dozen specialists at prestigious hospitals, all of whom were equally unhelpful in solving my problem. They were all very quick to prescribe pain medication though, in fact it seemed to be the only thing any of them were ever interested in doing. Some of them accused me of lying about my symptoms, and some told me I shouldn't even bother trying to get better. If US doctors - some of the best educated and most highly trained professionals in the world - aren't good at thinking critically about medicine, I'm not confident that it's being taught in the US. In fact I'm quite confident it's not taught in the US (or at least it wasn't). I was never taught critical thinking in a classroom setting, and I have multiple degrees from the US.
      - asveikau 6y ago
        You base this on one doctor though. I have enough life experience to know that some doctors are better at their jobs than others. Maybe that's on the individual. Maybe some medical schools are better than others. I don't know what the explanation is. But I don't think you can extrapolate to "US doctors" in the plural.
        nmfisher 6y ago
        I don’t know, this exactly mirrors my experience, and I constantly hear the same from many other people. Sure, it’s not every doctor. But throw a dart at a map and you’re bound to hit one who’s like this more often than not.
        danaris 6y ago
        I have seen enough anecdotes like this about medical school to feel comfortable saying that, at the very least, there is no nationwide systematic effort to teach critical thinking within them or the primary and secondary educational institutions that precede them.
- creato 6y ago
  > "why wouldn't schools have critical thinking as part of their curriculum"? "Knowledge-Based Education – We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority." Page 13: https://web.archive.org/web/20120629111643/http://s3.amazonaws.com/texasgop_pre/assets/original/2012-Platform-Final.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20120629111643/http://s3.amazona...

hindsightbias 6y ago

Googling for critical thinking curricula and high school district returns Henrico County (VA) on page 5 or 6. One would think if it were integrated with other studies it would be mentioned somewhere other than Edutopia and Walden adverts.

Loughla 6y ago
Have you ever dissected a novel in English class? Did you discuss motivations for various historical events in history? Did you talk about theory of public speaking purposes and styles? I did, in a very rural, very underfunded school district - all of those things are critical thinking. It is integrated into other studies. But there tend to not be "This lesson is critical thinking" sorts of headers on the lesson plans. Look for the phrase "lifelong learner". That tends to be where the "critical thinking" lives for many schools.
- hindsightbias 6y ago
  CT is ambiguously defined and complex in theory and practice. While analysis and evaluation of selected novels is intended to enlighten perspectives idk that curricula is rational or skeptical based on reading lists. Maybe an effect on bias. It’s been awhile, but would wonder how unbiased today’s history books are. I can’t see the State of Texas board being nuanced about the Alamo. I can see a rural district where teachers/schools have much more control over curricula, so enlightment or indoctrination is easier to influence. I dont see this scaling to large administrative/measurement bound districts. How does one test to CT outside perhaps secondary effects of STEM or AP results? It does appear that higher percentages of students are taking AP tests though. Being educated by Jesuits, we started with Socrates/Plato. But looking at my classmates FB feeds I don’t see any evidence of sober CT skills. Skepticism is a synonym of conspiricism in today’s generations. Biases are polar bound.
- int_19h 6y ago
  My experience with dissecting novels is the opposite - you're expected to contort yourself, and often insult your own intelligence, to make sure that the result of your analysis doesn't deviate from the "correct" one too much.

axguscbklp 6y ago

Also, the nature of most schooling goes against using it to teach critical thinking. Most schooling is forced on the students. It is difficult, though not impossible, for a system that coerces people to also teach those same people critical thinking. There is an inherent contradiction there.