4 ms·

Might be partially true but young people with no critical thinking skills fall for it just the same.

Bukhmanizer 6y ago
My feeling is that everyone falls for it. Maybe not to the same extent, but most of us probably only notice when we disagree with what’s being said.
- TheOtherHobbes 6y ago
  I've definitely seen Facebook posts that appear to be weaponised alignment with one particular view I happen to agree with, but which really just seem to be there to stir up conflict and create division. It's gotten to the point that I don't really trust anyone on Facebook in certain contexts - although I'm more likely to trust someone if their position shows some flexibility and avoids purely tribal thinking, and also if they show some evidence of background knowledge and general thoughtfulness. I'm less likely to trust anyone whose position encourages extreme polarisation, who appears to be disguising intent, whose posts are repetitive, and who tend towards inflammatory emotive language and insinuation. This isn't infallible and I know I've made mistakes in both directions. But I hope it's better than just getting astroturfed. Edit: I don't think critical thinking skills help as much as they should. This isn't about assessing evidence, it's about assessing intent - which is a different problem.
BitwiseFool 6y ago
It's easy to knock people for 'lacking critical thinking' but the truth is we're all predisposed to believe what aligns with our personalities and worldviews. And people like to harp on the idea that we should be teaching critical thinking in schools, but we already do this and we have been teaching it for decades.
- Judgmentality 6y ago
  > we should be teaching critical thinking in schools, but we already do this and we have been teaching it for decades. This is news to me. What countries are you referencing?
  - BitwiseFool 6y ago
    The United States, where I went to school. I also want to apply some critical thinking myself and ask "why wouldn't schools have critical thinking as part of their curriculum"? Teaching critical thinking skills is not some revolutionary idea and it's not like educators want to avoid teaching people how to do it.
    - Judgmentality 6y ago
      I never felt like critical thinking was part of the curriculum in the United States. I've always been kind of amazed how poorly it's taught if it's taught at all. Since we're just comparing anecdata at this point (or at least I am), if you have any data/studies or anything like that it would be appreciated.
      - BitwiseFool 6y ago
        To be honest I don't want to go into JStor to search for studies that support my viewpoint and lob them at you in a game of citation tennis. But, I will distill my viewpoint down as best I can and leave it at this: People claim that critical thinking is not taught in schools because it's an easy claim to make when you perceive that so many other people are thinking uncritically. But, make a claim they disagree with and watch how good they become at it. Everyone falls into a trap of thinking that society at large lacks 'common sense' or 'critical thinking' because we all assume our worldview is true and anyone who disagrees must have deficient thinking. Ultimately I think people are taught how to think critically, but the real problem is when they choose to think critically. And that, I think, is a result of human nature, not lack of education.
        Judgmentality 6y ago
- hindsightbias 6y ago
  Googling for critical thinking curricula and high school district returns Henrico County (VA) on page 5 or 6. One would think if it were integrated with other studies it would be mentioned somewhere other than Edutopia and Walden adverts.
  - Loughla 6y ago
    Have you ever dissected a novel in English class? Did you discuss motivations for various historical events in history? Did you talk about theory of public speaking purposes and styles? I did, in a very rural, very underfunded school district - all of those things are critical thinking. It is integrated into other studies. But there tend to not be "This lesson is critical thinking" sorts of headers on the lesson plans. Look for the phrase "lifelong learner". That tends to be where the "critical thinking" lives for many schools.
    - hindsightbias 6y ago
      CT is ambiguously defined and complex in theory and practice. While analysis and evaluation of selected novels is intended to enlighten perspectives idk that curricula is rational or skeptical based on reading lists. Maybe an effect on bias. It’s been awhile, but would wonder how unbiased today’s history books are. I can’t see the State of Texas board being nuanced about the Alamo. I can see a rural district where teachers/schools have much more control over curricula, so enlightment or indoctrination is easier to influence. I dont see this scaling to large administrative/measurement bound districts. How does one test to CT outside perhaps secondary effects of STEM or AP results? It does appear that higher percentages of students are taking AP tests though. Being educated by Jesuits, we started with Socrates/Plato. But looking at my classmates FB feeds I don’t see any evidence of sober CT skills. Skepticism is a synonym of conspiricism in today’s generations. Biases are polar bound.
    - int_19h 6y ago
      My experience with dissecting novels is the opposite - you're expected to contort yourself, and often insult your own intelligence, to make sure that the result of your analysis doesn't deviate from the "correct" one too much.
- axguscbklp 6y ago
  Also, the nature of most schooling goes against using it to teach critical thinking. Most schooling is forced on the students. It is difficult, though not impossible, for a system that coerces people to also teach those same people critical thinking. There is an inherent contradiction there.
InitialLastName 6y ago
Strangely, I see a lot of the same people complaining about the critical thinking skills of others and also lashing out at others for thinking critically about whatever conspiratorial narrative the former are selling.

My feeling is that everyone falls for it. Maybe not to the same extent, but most of us probably only notice when we disagree with what’s being said.

TheOtherHobbes 6y ago
I've definitely seen Facebook posts that appear to be weaponised alignment with one particular view I happen to agree with, but which really just seem to be there to stir up conflict and create division. It's gotten to the point that I don't really trust anyone on Facebook in certain contexts - although I'm more likely to trust someone if their position shows some flexibility and avoids purely tribal thinking, and also if they show some evidence of background knowledge and general thoughtfulness. I'm less likely to trust anyone whose position encourages extreme polarisation, who appears to be disguising intent, whose posts are repetitive, and who tend towards inflammatory emotive language and insinuation. This isn't infallible and I know I've made mistakes in both directions. But I hope it's better than just getting astroturfed. Edit: I don't think critical thinking skills help as much as they should. This isn't about assessing evidence, it's about assessing intent - which is a different problem.

BitwiseFool 6y ago

It's easy to knock people for 'lacking critical thinking' but the truth is we're all predisposed to believe what aligns with our personalities and worldviews. And people like to harp on the idea that we should be teaching critical thinking in schools, but we already do this and we have been teaching it for decades.

Judgmentality 6y ago
> we should be teaching critical thinking in schools, but we already do this and we have been teaching it for decades. This is news to me. What countries are you referencing?
- BitwiseFool 6y ago
  The United States, where I went to school. I also want to apply some critical thinking myself and ask "why wouldn't schools have critical thinking as part of their curriculum"? Teaching critical thinking skills is not some revolutionary idea and it's not like educators want to avoid teaching people how to do it.
  - Judgmentality 6y ago
    I never felt like critical thinking was part of the curriculum in the United States. I've always been kind of amazed how poorly it's taught if it's taught at all. Since we're just comparing anecdata at this point (or at least I am), if you have any data/studies or anything like that it would be appreciated.
    - BitwiseFool 6y ago
      To be honest I don't want to go into JStor to search for studies that support my viewpoint and lob them at you in a game of citation tennis. But, I will distill my viewpoint down as best I can and leave it at this: People claim that critical thinking is not taught in schools because it's an easy claim to make when you perceive that so many other people are thinking uncritically. But, make a claim they disagree with and watch how good they become at it. Everyone falls into a trap of thinking that society at large lacks 'common sense' or 'critical thinking' because we all assume our worldview is true and anyone who disagrees must have deficient thinking. Ultimately I think people are taught how to think critically, but the real problem is when they choose to think critically. And that, I think, is a result of human nature, not lack of education.
      - Judgmentality 6y ago
hindsightbias 6y ago
Googling for critical thinking curricula and high school district returns Henrico County (VA) on page 5 or 6. One would think if it were integrated with other studies it would be mentioned somewhere other than Edutopia and Walden adverts.
- Loughla 6y ago
  Have you ever dissected a novel in English class? Did you discuss motivations for various historical events in history? Did you talk about theory of public speaking purposes and styles? I did, in a very rural, very underfunded school district - all of those things are critical thinking. It is integrated into other studies. But there tend to not be "This lesson is critical thinking" sorts of headers on the lesson plans. Look for the phrase "lifelong learner". That tends to be where the "critical thinking" lives for many schools.
  - hindsightbias 6y ago
    CT is ambiguously defined and complex in theory and practice. While analysis and evaluation of selected novels is intended to enlighten perspectives idk that curricula is rational or skeptical based on reading lists. Maybe an effect on bias. It’s been awhile, but would wonder how unbiased today’s history books are. I can’t see the State of Texas board being nuanced about the Alamo. I can see a rural district where teachers/schools have much more control over curricula, so enlightment or indoctrination is easier to influence. I dont see this scaling to large administrative/measurement bound districts. How does one test to CT outside perhaps secondary effects of STEM or AP results? It does appear that higher percentages of students are taking AP tests though. Being educated by Jesuits, we started with Socrates/Plato. But looking at my classmates FB feeds I don’t see any evidence of sober CT skills. Skepticism is a synonym of conspiricism in today’s generations. Biases are polar bound.
  - int_19h 6y ago
    My experience with dissecting novels is the opposite - you're expected to contort yourself, and often insult your own intelligence, to make sure that the result of your analysis doesn't deviate from the "correct" one too much.
axguscbklp 6y ago
Also, the nature of most schooling goes against using it to teach critical thinking. Most schooling is forced on the students. It is difficult, though not impossible, for a system that coerces people to also teach those same people critical thinking. There is an inherent contradiction there.

InitialLastName 6y ago

Strangely, I see a lot of the same people complaining about the critical thinking skills of others and also lashing out at others for thinking critically about whatever conspiratorial narrative the former are selling.