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You know how I know you've never worked with infantrymen, lol? A conscripted army by definition has lax standards of vetting and lesser standards of training (

You know how I know you've never worked with infantrymen, lol? A conscripted army by definition has lax standards of vetting and lesser standards of training (you're only holding on to your investment for a couple years). Russia has conscription (or recently did), it's not a strong indicator of anything. These are regular people. There's nothing magical about getting yelled at for 90 days that makes them less likely to solve problems with violence. People always trot out this point about military service but it's such a useless comparison and I think it actually harms their argument rather than helps it.

omgwtfbbq 6y ago
>You know how I know you've never worked with infantrymen, lol? Irrelevant but ok. >A conscripted army by definition has lax standards of vetting and lesser standards of training In Switzerland: "People determined unfit for service, where fitness is defined as "satisfying physically, intellectually and psychological requirements for military service or civil protection service and being capable of accomplishing these services without harming oneself or others", are exempted from service but pay a 3% additional annual income tax until the age of 37, unless they are affected by a disability. Almost 20% of all conscripts were found unfit for military or civilian service in 2008; the rate is generally higher in urban cantons such as Zurich and Geneva than in the rural ones" >There's nothing magical about getting yelled at for 90 days that makes them less likely to solve problems with violence You really think average Joe who walks into walmart and walks out with a rifle is going to be as responsible a gun owner as someone with military training? Also Basic in Switzerland is ~140 days for reference...
- ryanlol 6y ago
  At least in Finland people aren’t really vetted. The “determined unfit for service” thing is more of an opt-out, nobody will force it upon you unless you’re obviously disabled. You have to go to the doctor and ask to be deemed unfit, you’d have to do something crazy to have that forced upon you against your will. I don’t think Swiss is any different.
  - omgwtfbbq 6y ago
    >I don’t think Swiss is any different. I literally posted a quote saying 20% of conscripts are rejected as unfit... But this is all way outside the original point I was making anyway.
    - ryanlol 6y ago
      You mean 20% of conscripts choose to opt out because they don’t want to spend a year of their life in the military? :)
sandworm101 6y ago
>> getting yelled at for 90 days that makes them less likely to solve problems with violence. Which movie is that from? I dont remember ever being yelled at during basic. Our "staff" never felt the need to raise thier voices. If you are infantry you know to be most afraid when the training staff say nothing.
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  It's just a trope. Drill instructors mostly yell so there's no chance the guy at the back didn't hear them and to instill the appropriate urgency. Maybe if you screw up enough you'll get the 6" away forehead vein popping out type yelling. I wasn't describing the literal experience of boot camp. It I wanted to do that I would have said "getting rained on while jogging for 90 days".
  - sandworm101 6y ago
    Drill instructors shout. They never yell. They are generally some of the most calm and level-headed people i have working for me. Spend 90 days days surrounded by armed teenagers operating on little sleep and you too will be slow to anger.
    - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
      Shouting vs yelling seems like a distinction without a difference or at least without a difference that's greater than the noise floor of the english language.

omgwtfbbq 6y ago

>You know how I know you've never worked with infantrymen, lol? Irrelevant but ok. >A conscripted army by definition has lax standards of vetting and lesser standards of training In Switzerland: "People determined unfit for service, where fitness is defined as "satisfying physically, intellectually and psychological requirements for military service or civil protection service and being capable of accomplishing these services without harming oneself or others", are exempted from service but pay a 3% additional annual income tax until the age of 37, unless they are affected by a disability. Almost 20% of all conscripts were found unfit for military or civilian service in 2008; the rate is generally higher in urban cantons such as Zurich and Geneva than in the rural ones" >There's nothing magical about getting yelled at for 90 days that makes them less likely to solve problems with violence You really think average Joe who walks into walmart and walks out with a rifle is going to be as responsible a gun owner as someone with military training? Also Basic in Switzerland is ~140 days for reference...

ryanlol 6y ago
At least in Finland people aren’t really vetted. The “determined unfit for service” thing is more of an opt-out, nobody will force it upon you unless you’re obviously disabled. You have to go to the doctor and ask to be deemed unfit, you’d have to do something crazy to have that forced upon you against your will. I don’t think Swiss is any different.
- omgwtfbbq 6y ago
  >I don’t think Swiss is any different. I literally posted a quote saying 20% of conscripts are rejected as unfit... But this is all way outside the original point I was making anyway.
  - ryanlol 6y ago
    You mean 20% of conscripts choose to opt out because they don’t want to spend a year of their life in the military? :)

sandworm101 6y ago

>> getting yelled at for 90 days that makes them less likely to solve problems with violence. Which movie is that from? I dont remember ever being yelled at during basic. Our "staff" never felt the need to raise thier voices. If you are infantry you know to be most afraid when the training staff say nothing.

throwaway0a5e 6y ago
It's just a trope. Drill instructors mostly yell so there's no chance the guy at the back didn't hear them and to instill the appropriate urgency. Maybe if you screw up enough you'll get the 6" away forehead vein popping out type yelling. I wasn't describing the literal experience of boot camp. It I wanted to do that I would have said "getting rained on while jogging for 90 days".
- sandworm101 6y ago
  Drill instructors shout. They never yell. They are generally some of the most calm and level-headed people i have working for me. Spend 90 days days surrounded by armed teenagers operating on little sleep and you too will be slow to anger.
  - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
    Shouting vs yelling seems like a distinction without a difference or at least without a difference that's greater than the noise floor of the english language.