4 ms·

I have been to many and there are always people who are unlicensed walking the show advertising that they want to trade or sell their gun. This is literally the

I have been to many and there are always people who are unlicensed walking the show advertising that they want to trade or sell their gun. This is literally the "Gun Show Loophole"

throwaway0a5e 6y ago
Nobody wants to sell guns to bad people. This loophole wouldn't exist if the people that keep calling it a loophole would settle for a solution that can't be easily co-opted into a de-facto registry. Dropping the 4473 requirement and opening the NCIS check system to anyone is a potential compromise that gets thrown out often from the "it's not a loophole it's an exemption" side but it never goes anywhere.
- omgwtfbbq 6y ago
  > a solution that can't be easily co-opted into a de-facto registry. Yeah it's called a background check.
  - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
    I can't tell if you're just ignorant or being disingenuous. When you buy a gun from an FFL they submit your ID (SSN, name, birth-date, etc) to the NCIS system that basically checks that you answered all the questions on the 4473 truthfully. Then the seller tells them what kind of gun you're buying (long gun vs handgun) and assuming it's all clear records the specific serial numbers on the 4473 which they then file and keep for 20+yr. So there exists a record of who every professionally manufactured gun was first sold to. Of course nobody would tolerate being subject to those record keeping requirements for private sales. But nobody wants to get the pigs knocking on their door asking who they sold a gun they recovered from a crime scene to so people want to be able to call up the NCIS system (without being a federally licensed dealer, which is an onerous process) and confirm that whoever they're about to sell a gun to in a Walmart parking lot isn't a prohibited person. Over the years there have been numerous proposals to open up the NCIS system. They've all included requirements about recording serial numbers and retaining records and are a comically bad deal for gun owners so of course it goes nowhere.
    - omgwtfbbq 6y ago
      >Of course nobody would tolerate being subject to those record keeping requirements for private sales. But nobody wants to get the pigs knocking on their door asking who they sold a gun they recovered from a crime scene to so people want to be able to call up the NCIS system You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you aren't comfortable selling a gun to a criminal or someone with a potentially dangerous mental illness you need to do a background check there's no alternative. Maybe for your specific gripe, which I don't find compelling, you disconnect the background check from the specific gun being sold but you still need to do it.

I have been to many and there are always people who are unlicensed walking the show advertising that they want to trade or sell their gun. This is literally the "Gun Show Loophole"

throwaway0a5e 6y ago

Nobody wants to sell guns to bad people. This loophole wouldn't exist if the people that keep calling it a loophole would settle for a solution that can't be easily co-opted into a de-facto registry. Dropping the 4473 requirement and opening the NCIS check system to anyone is a potential compromise that gets thrown out often from the "it's not a loophole it's an exemption" side but it never goes anywhere.

omgwtfbbq 6y ago
> a solution that can't be easily co-opted into a de-facto registry. Yeah it's called a background check.
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  I can't tell if you're just ignorant or being disingenuous. When you buy a gun from an FFL they submit your ID (SSN, name, birth-date, etc) to the NCIS system that basically checks that you answered all the questions on the 4473 truthfully. Then the seller tells them what kind of gun you're buying (long gun vs handgun) and assuming it's all clear records the specific serial numbers on the 4473 which they then file and keep for 20+yr. So there exists a record of who every professionally manufactured gun was first sold to. Of course nobody would tolerate being subject to those record keeping requirements for private sales. But nobody wants to get the pigs knocking on their door asking who they sold a gun they recovered from a crime scene to so people want to be able to call up the NCIS system (without being a federally licensed dealer, which is an onerous process) and confirm that whoever they're about to sell a gun to in a Walmart parking lot isn't a prohibited person. Over the years there have been numerous proposals to open up the NCIS system. They've all included requirements about recording serial numbers and retaining records and are a comically bad deal for gun owners so of course it goes nowhere.
  - omgwtfbbq 6y ago
    >Of course nobody would tolerate being subject to those record keeping requirements for private sales. But nobody wants to get the pigs knocking on their door asking who they sold a gun they recovered from a crime scene to so people want to be able to call up the NCIS system You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you aren't comfortable selling a gun to a criminal or someone with a potentially dangerous mental illness you need to do a background check there's no alternative. Maybe for your specific gripe, which I don't find compelling, you disconnect the background check from the specific gun being sold but you still need to do it.