6 ms·

"This makes it extremely difficult to evaluate products shipped in such incomplete form. " No it doesn't. If that's what they give you, that's what you review.

by dr_ 15y ago

"This makes it extremely difficult to evaluate products shipped in such incomplete form. " No it doesn't. If that's what they give you, that's what you review. If x is missing, you say the product lacks x. If the manufacturer is not happy with that, then maybe they shouldn't release the product until it's fully functional.

spiralganglion 15y ago
If anyone is hoping for Samsung to value perfection at launch over being one of the first-to-market in every Android form factor, they're holding out for a Galaxy far, far away. But it seems to be working well (enough) for Samsung. I agree, though, that reviews should always be based on what the reviewer has in-hand. Every review I've read for non-Apple tablets has offered some "benefit of the doubt" that the iPad never got... or needed.
NaOH 15y ago
I'd be curious to know the longer-term traffic data for sites which do these types of reviews. Folks like us are quick to read these reviews, but I wonder how many regular users are reading them, say, four months down the road. I know when I'm researching a purchase about which my knowledge is nothing noteworthy, the immediate reviews (like this one from Ars) are beneficial to me when compared to later reviews because it enables me to see how the product has developed over time.
- benologist 15y ago
  I think long term traffic is a major focus for them all - the products become released, they probably have great success sending people straight from reviews to vendors through advertisements - if they can secure good positions in search engines. Content farms like Engadget (Ars are much higher quality) try pretty hard to corner Google rankings for products, manufacturers and everything else. Here's an Engadget review of the same product: http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/08/samsung-galaxy-tab-10-1-review/ http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/08/samsung-galaxy-tab-10-1-r... - 18 internal links to their own garbage articles and tag pages which only exist for search engines - 20 tags that cover everything they could think of that you might put into Google: android 3.1, android tablet, Android3.1, AndroidTablet, galaxy tab, Galaxy Tab 10.1, GalaxyTab, GalaxyTab10.1, google, honeycomb, review, Samsung, Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1, SamsungGalaxyTab10.1, slate, tab, tablet, tablet pc, TabletPc, video - no external links that might accidentally boost someone else's SERPs
dkarl 15y ago
On the other hand... We currently have no way of knowing how Samsung's software customizations will impact the Tab 10.1's performance, reliability, or battery life when TouchWiz eventually gets rolled out to consumers. ...don't ignore the possibility that things might get worse when the manufacturer's "enhancements" and "features" are added, and readers who go by a review of the product in its current state might be disappointed with the product they get next month.
- Steko 15y ago
  Not including the addl ui layer and Flash is definitely going to make your battery look better.
  - Relwal 15y ago
    How so vis-a-vis mobile Flash?
    - Steko 15y ago
      Doesn't it do hardware acceleration?
emehrkay 15y ago
Gruber keeps spazzing about the slant given to "incomplete" products and he does have a point.
- richcollins 15y ago
  He spazzed in the other direction when it came to the iPhone (copy/paste et al)
thaumaturgy 15y ago
> ...then maybe they shouldn't release the product until it's fully functional. But ... but ... but what about all the advice we keep hearing about MVPs and "ship ship ship" and "iterate" and...?
- drivebyacct2 15y ago
  "ship ship ship" is hard when it comes to hardware. As for the software side of things, I'd say "QA", but I find the dev/release cycles at these major phone/tablet manufacturers to be unbelievably slow. As in, I really don't understand what they're doing a lot of the time. 5 volunteers working on CM can fix and implement features in the time it takes Motorola's team to do a `git merge` on Android and push it out to their phones (yes, even non-Blur phones).
  - thaumaturgy 15y ago
    I wonder if a lot of what we read about software development methodology is to blame for this? I would expect that individual and freelance developers, and developers at small companies, are more likely to practice "cowboy programming" -- use frameworks, glue them together, write code, handle (most) edge cases, exercise the most basic of best practices -- while larger companies, like Motorola, are more likely to practice something that a manager read about in a book or a consultant sold them on -- "waterfall development", "test-driven development", etc. (Not that I have anything against those methods, but they would tend to slow down development in a corporate environment.)
    - drivebyacct2 15y ago
      I'm not sure it's so cut and dry. If you look at how CM releases are managed... they're very well done. Nightly build servers, good communication on their GitHub and Gerrit, very stable builds considering their nightly builds, all the dozens of phones exist as the larger CM project. I know you were speaking more generally, but I don't know that one or the other is always better, whether it's speed or style or development workflow.
- 15y ago
martincmartin 15y ago
If that's what they give you, that's what you review. If x is missing, you say the product lacks x. While that would be satisfying for the writer, the reader wants to know what it will be like to own one. They may buy one several months from now, and keep using it for years. The author is saying they can't evaluate the dominant experience of actual users.
- sorbus 15y ago
  Wait, are you saying that it is impossible to write a review that is useful for the reader unless it is a review of a product which is not going to change in the future?
  - wowamit 15y ago
    Change is fine if it is aimed at making the overall experience better. From what we have seen in the past, any UI layer an OEM adds above stock Android just makes the overall experience worse, performance wise mainly. The reviews would never be able to foresee that.

by dr_ 15y ago

spiralganglion 15y ago

If anyone is hoping for Samsung to value perfection at launch over being one of the first-to-market in every Android form factor, they're holding out for a Galaxy far, far away. But it seems to be working well (enough) for Samsung. I agree, though, that reviews should always be based on what the reviewer has in-hand. Every review I've read for non-Apple tablets has offered some "benefit of the doubt" that the iPad never got... or needed.

NaOH 15y ago

I'd be curious to know the longer-term traffic data for sites which do these types of reviews. Folks like us are quick to read these reviews, but I wonder how many regular users are reading them, say, four months down the road. I know when I'm researching a purchase about which my knowledge is nothing noteworthy, the immediate reviews (like this one from Ars) are beneficial to me when compared to later reviews because it enables me to see how the product has developed over time.

benologist 15y ago
I think long term traffic is a major focus for them all - the products become released, they probably have great success sending people straight from reviews to vendors through advertisements - if they can secure good positions in search engines. Content farms like Engadget (Ars are much higher quality) try pretty hard to corner Google rankings for products, manufacturers and everything else. Here's an Engadget review of the same product: http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/08/samsung-galaxy-tab-10-1-review/ http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/08/samsung-galaxy-tab-10-1-r... - 18 internal links to their own garbage articles and tag pages which only exist for search engines - 20 tags that cover everything they could think of that you might put into Google: android 3.1, android tablet, Android3.1, AndroidTablet, galaxy tab, Galaxy Tab 10.1, GalaxyTab, GalaxyTab10.1, google, honeycomb, review, Samsung, Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1, SamsungGalaxyTab10.1, slate, tab, tablet, tablet pc, TabletPc, video - no external links that might accidentally boost someone else's SERPs

dkarl 15y ago

On the other hand... We currently have no way of knowing how Samsung's software customizations will impact the Tab 10.1's performance, reliability, or battery life when TouchWiz eventually gets rolled out to consumers. ...don't ignore the possibility that things might get worse when the manufacturer's "enhancements" and "features" are added, and readers who go by a review of the product in its current state might be disappointed with the product they get next month.

Steko 15y ago
Not including the addl ui layer and Flash is definitely going to make your battery look better.
- Relwal 15y ago
  How so vis-a-vis mobile Flash?
  - Steko 15y ago
    Doesn't it do hardware acceleration?

emehrkay 15y ago

Gruber keeps spazzing about the slant given to "incomplete" products and he does have a point.

richcollins 15y ago
He spazzed in the other direction when it came to the iPhone (copy/paste et al)

thaumaturgy 15y ago

> ...then maybe they shouldn't release the product until it's fully functional. But ... but ... but what about all the advice we keep hearing about MVPs and "ship ship ship" and "iterate" and...?

drivebyacct2 15y ago
"ship ship ship" is hard when it comes to hardware. As for the software side of things, I'd say "QA", but I find the dev/release cycles at these major phone/tablet manufacturers to be unbelievably slow. As in, I really don't understand what they're doing a lot of the time. 5 volunteers working on CM can fix and implement features in the time it takes Motorola's team to do a `git merge` on Android and push it out to their phones (yes, even non-Blur phones).
- thaumaturgy 15y ago
  I wonder if a lot of what we read about software development methodology is to blame for this? I would expect that individual and freelance developers, and developers at small companies, are more likely to practice "cowboy programming" -- use frameworks, glue them together, write code, handle (most) edge cases, exercise the most basic of best practices -- while larger companies, like Motorola, are more likely to practice something that a manager read about in a book or a consultant sold them on -- "waterfall development", "test-driven development", etc. (Not that I have anything against those methods, but they would tend to slow down development in a corporate environment.)
  - drivebyacct2 15y ago
    I'm not sure it's so cut and dry. If you look at how CM releases are managed... they're very well done. Nightly build servers, good communication on their GitHub and Gerrit, very stable builds considering their nightly builds, all the dozens of phones exist as the larger CM project. I know you were speaking more generally, but I don't know that one or the other is always better, whether it's speed or style or development workflow.
15y ago

martincmartin 15y ago

If that's what they give you, that's what you review. If x is missing, you say the product lacks x. While that would be satisfying for the writer, the reader wants to know what it will be like to own one. They may buy one several months from now, and keep using it for years. The author is saying they can't evaluate the dominant experience of actual users.

sorbus 15y ago
Wait, are you saying that it is impossible to write a review that is useful for the reader unless it is a review of a product which is not going to change in the future?
- wowamit 15y ago
  Change is fine if it is aimed at making the overall experience better. From what we have seen in the past, any UI layer an OEM adds above stock Android just makes the overall experience worse, performance wise mainly. The reviews would never be able to foresee that.