4 ms·

Does it have to do with proper gun control or better access to mental health services?

vmception 6y ago
The Swiss own guns for opposite reasons that Americans do. They own them because they trust their government or if that's too strong of a word, they are content with their ability to defend Switzerland for the government. Instead of defending themselves from the government. (But that sentiment exists too)
- floren 6y ago
  And you're saying that because Americans want to defend themselves from the government, that's why Americans kill each other so much? I don't see "Swiss trust their government" as a solid reason for their lower murder rate.
  - vmception 6y ago
    It's not the complete story, I'm not going to write a dissertation here. Just was aiming to show one stark contrast to show how broad the gun ownership reasoning can be, outside of American reasons.
  - sandworm101 6y ago
    The defense against government makes guns commonplace, availible for use in other types of violence. The link is more practical than ideological.
    - floren 6y ago
      But this is all in the context of Switzerland, where guns are also commonplace and therefore available for use in other types of violence.
      - sandworm101 6y ago
        Swiss guns stay at home as items for use in extrodinary circumstances. US culture sees guns as personal defense items to be carried during daily activities. So, in practice, they are much more availible for use.
- Mordisquitos 6y ago
  And, to be more specific, gun-ownership culture in Switzerland has nothing to do with the idea of personal self-defence as it does in the USA. Rather, it is related to hunting and target-shooting sports.
  - maxerickson 6y ago
    The majority of long guns in the US are pretty likely bought for hunting. There's a pretty loud home defense community, but it isn't that big. And of course most pistols are not purchased for hunting.
- sandworm101 6y ago
  US gun culture isnt just about defending one's self from the government. It gets darker than that. It is about retaining the ability to aggressively destroy and replace that government. Many gun nuts really do believe in revolution. Luckily they remain a minority, but they are out there.
jaywalk 6y ago
Our murder rate isn't high because legal gun owners are out killing people. It's all gang-related. So to answer your question: none of the above. It's demographics.
- daemoens 6y ago
  The majority of these prominent mass shootings we've seen so far have been using legal guns.
  - leetcrew 6y ago
    mass shootings are a very small fraction of gun homicides that receive disproportionate coverage. if mass shootings stopped overnight, you would barely notice a change in the US homicide rate.
- maxerickson 6y ago
  https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-10.xls https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-... There's a lot of unrecorded relationships, but family and intimate partners make up a pretty big chunk of the homicides in the US.
  - jaywalk 6y ago
    That's a funny way of noting that Acquaintance, Stranger and Unknown make up nearly 80% of the homicides.
    - maxerickson 6y ago
      20% is more accurately described as 'big chunk' than any argument you can make for 'all gang related'.
dobin 6y ago
I think there are different reasons: - Mandatory military service makes people know how to use guns - People have mandatory health insurance and social security, means there is no need to shoot people for money - Less racist police, means minorities dont solve problems by themselves with violence - high minimum wage, so nobody has to starve - Gun owners do not use guns to defend against burglars, so burglars also dont have to use guns - Proper handling of drug addiction (including addicts) - better mental health because of mandatory holidays, parental leaves, and a lot of chocolate - Prostitution is legal, so no pimping
- Mediterraneo10 6y ago
  > People have mandatory health insurance and social security, means there is no need to shoot people for money Even European countries with a decent social safety net still have some drug addicts (mainly heroin) who are desperate for money to buy that expensive drug and will engage in petty crime to do so, e.g. pickpocketing, mugging, bicycle theft, theft of copper wiring, etc. (And yes, some states provide assistive infrastructure for addicts, but there are still demographics that avoid it and continue their addict to street drugs.) The fact that there is almost no shooting going on has more to do with legal and/or cultural pressures on guns than the existence of a welfare state making life OK for everyone.
  - dobin 6y ago
    There are few legal restrictions to buy a gun here. Fill out a form, send it to the police, they mail you the license, go buy some AK's. Petty crime yes, mostly bicycle theft, and some mugging
milkrocks 6y ago
look in America who does the most shootings by race, remove those shootings and look how safe America would be if we removed blacks and hispanics.
- tzs 6y ago
  Race correlates with lack of wealth and lack of opportunity in the US, and lack of wealth and lack of opportunity correlate with crime. You really have to take the race/wealth correlation into account if you want to try to make inferences from race-based crime statistics that are actually useful.
- daemoens 6y ago
  Well thats pretty blatant
- dang 6y ago
  We've banned this account. You can't do this here.

The Swiss own guns for opposite reasons that Americans do. They own them because they trust their government or if that's too strong of a word, they are content with their ability to defend Switzerland for the government. Instead of defending themselves from the government. (But that sentiment exists too)

floren 6y ago
And you're saying that because Americans want to defend themselves from the government, that's why Americans kill each other so much? I don't see "Swiss trust their government" as a solid reason for their lower murder rate.
- vmception 6y ago
  It's not the complete story, I'm not going to write a dissertation here. Just was aiming to show one stark contrast to show how broad the gun ownership reasoning can be, outside of American reasons.
- sandworm101 6y ago
  The defense against government makes guns commonplace, availible for use in other types of violence. The link is more practical than ideological.
  - floren 6y ago
    But this is all in the context of Switzerland, where guns are also commonplace and therefore available for use in other types of violence.
    - sandworm101 6y ago
      Swiss guns stay at home as items for use in extrodinary circumstances. US culture sees guns as personal defense items to be carried during daily activities. So, in practice, they are much more availible for use.
Mordisquitos 6y ago
And, to be more specific, gun-ownership culture in Switzerland has nothing to do with the idea of personal self-defence as it does in the USA. Rather, it is related to hunting and target-shooting sports.
- maxerickson 6y ago
  The majority of long guns in the US are pretty likely bought for hunting. There's a pretty loud home defense community, but it isn't that big. And of course most pistols are not purchased for hunting.
sandworm101 6y ago
US gun culture isnt just about defending one's self from the government. It gets darker than that. It is about retaining the ability to aggressively destroy and replace that government. Many gun nuts really do believe in revolution. Luckily they remain a minority, but they are out there.

jaywalk 6y ago

Our murder rate isn't high because legal gun owners are out killing people. It's all gang-related. So to answer your question: none of the above. It's demographics.

daemoens 6y ago
The majority of these prominent mass shootings we've seen so far have been using legal guns.
- leetcrew 6y ago
  mass shootings are a very small fraction of gun homicides that receive disproportionate coverage. if mass shootings stopped overnight, you would barely notice a change in the US homicide rate.
maxerickson 6y ago
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-10.xls https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-... There's a lot of unrecorded relationships, but family and intimate partners make up a pretty big chunk of the homicides in the US.
- jaywalk 6y ago
  That's a funny way of noting that Acquaintance, Stranger and Unknown make up nearly 80% of the homicides.
  - maxerickson 6y ago
    20% is more accurately described as 'big chunk' than any argument you can make for 'all gang related'.

dobin 6y ago

I think there are different reasons: - Mandatory military service makes people know how to use guns - People have mandatory health insurance and social security, means there is no need to shoot people for money - Less racist police, means minorities dont solve problems by themselves with violence - high minimum wage, so nobody has to starve - Gun owners do not use guns to defend against burglars, so burglars also dont have to use guns - Proper handling of drug addiction (including addicts) - better mental health because of mandatory holidays, parental leaves, and a lot of chocolate - Prostitution is legal, so no pimping

Mediterraneo10 6y ago
> People have mandatory health insurance and social security, means there is no need to shoot people for money Even European countries with a decent social safety net still have some drug addicts (mainly heroin) who are desperate for money to buy that expensive drug and will engage in petty crime to do so, e.g. pickpocketing, mugging, bicycle theft, theft of copper wiring, etc. (And yes, some states provide assistive infrastructure for addicts, but there are still demographics that avoid it and continue their addict to street drugs.) The fact that there is almost no shooting going on has more to do with legal and/or cultural pressures on guns than the existence of a welfare state making life OK for everyone.
- dobin 6y ago
  There are few legal restrictions to buy a gun here. Fill out a form, send it to the police, they mail you the license, go buy some AK's. Petty crime yes, mostly bicycle theft, and some mugging

milkrocks 6y ago

look in America who does the most shootings by race, remove those shootings and look how safe America would be if we removed blacks and hispanics.

tzs 6y ago
Race correlates with lack of wealth and lack of opportunity in the US, and lack of wealth and lack of opportunity correlate with crime. You really have to take the race/wealth correlation into account if you want to try to make inferences from race-based crime statistics that are actually useful.
daemoens 6y ago
Well thats pretty blatant
dang 6y ago
We've banned this account. You can't do this here.