5 ms·

It is respectful to at least attempt to pronounce names from different cultures. In many cases, I totally understand it is difficult. In those cases, an attempt

It is respectful to at least attempt to pronounce names from different cultures. In many cases, I totally understand it is difficult. In those cases, an attempt is great. In this case, the syllable F exists in Latin and I don't see why it. I must say, I have seen many many times a lack of interest to even attempt to pronounce of even write a name properly. One example which comes to my mind is Ghandi instead of Gandhi.

sillyquiet 6y ago
To re-iterate my point, it's not about 'respect' (respect for whom, exactly and why?) it's about communication. If I were trying to say the word 'Volkswagen' to a German speaking person, I would do my best to pronounce it in a way they would understand. As most of the time I ever say the word 'Volkswagen' out loud it's to my fellow English speakers, pronouncing it in the expected English way seems way less pretentious and way more effective.
- mixedCase 6y ago
  >seems way less pretentious Or you could help do your part in normalizing pronouncing things correctly instead of perpetuating the perception that it's somehow "pretentious".
  - sillyquiet 6y ago
    The pronunciation is already normalized in English, and most people already pronounce it correctly in English for other English speakers. Expecting non-German people to speak with German pronunciation is plain arrogant.
  - fastball 6y ago
    They're speaking English. The correct pronunciation of a "V" is in fact to make the english "V" sound.
    - Bud 6y ago
      Nope. Proper nouns are to be pronounced in whatever way is dictated by the country of origin. Also, no, English is not very reliable when it comes to spelling vs. pronunciation. (Former diction teacher, here.)
      - fastball 6y ago
        I'm going to avoid being snarky and point out this is merely the way you taught it. There is not hard and fast rule that says you have to do it this way. Also, Vs are actually pretty consistent in English. Can't even think of a word with a V where the V doesn't sound like a V.
        Bud 6y ago
        What's interesting here is that the exception proves the rule. V is actually the only letter in English that is never silent. Most other letters also have various possible renderings into pronunciation, especially the vowels—"i" for instance can end up being at least 5 different vowel sounds and also some consonant sounds. So yes. As I pointed out, English is extremely irregular orthographically, in stark contrast to languages like German, French, or Italian, all of which have extremely reliable and simple pronunciation rules.
fermienrico 6y ago
This is an unreasonable expectation. People should try but if they don't, there is no malice here. There are many languages around the world and it is impossible to remember every nuance of how to pronounce things. Ghandi is common pronounciation even in Germany. The Japanese might pronounce it something else.
- tchalla 6y ago
  > Ghandi is common pronounciation even in Germany. I don't think it is an unreasonable expectation to write the word "Gandhi" as "Gandhi". That's how he wrote the name, that's how he signed it and that's the actual spelling. I can understand the difficulty in pronunciation but getting the name right while typing it out is unforgivable in this century.
  - fermienrico 6y ago
    I meant the pronunciation, not the spelling. Also, learning to forgive is a rare virtue these days. Entitlement and expection creates conflict. Learn to forgive others and you'll have a better time with everyone else. No one who even spells it as Ghandi means any malice or offense. So, it is a matter of technicality. Let go.
    - tchalla 6y ago
      I agree - learning to forgive is rare virtue. For example, I think we should also "learn to forgive" to people who point out that Gandhi is the right spelling. It's not meant as many malice of offence. So, it is a matter of technicality. Let go.
      - fermienrico 6y ago
        You're forgiven :), cheers!
ike77 6y ago
I would agree for a physical person name. But for a brand definitely not. It's the job of the brand creators to make sure that the name can be read and pronounced in the various target markets.
- chefkoch 6y ago
  To be fair, when the brand was created the germans wanted to change the target markets.
reaperducer 6y ago
It is respectful to at least attempt to pronounce names from different cultures In many cases, it is unnecessary and only makes the speaker look foolish. "Hyundai" is pronounces its own brand name differently in American and Korean TV commercials. Is Hyundai being disrespectful to Koreans? The goal is to communicate. Making communication more difficult is the opposite of the goal.
- libria 6y ago
  > In many cases, it is unnecessary and only makes the speaker look foolish. Comedic skits touch on this [1][2] and though a caricature, I think they capture the gist of how it's perceived when attempted. I think it stems from a desire for "cultural wokeness" which is a good thing and has its place, but as you say when communication is the goal, speak the language of the receiver. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKGoVefhtMQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKGoVefhtMQ [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWMp_z7Jnxw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWMp_z7Jnxw
mlyle 6y ago
In practice, if a name has a common pronunciation within English, you show respect by using that pronunciation when speaking to native English speakers. Otherwise you just cause confusion. The adapted names have their own history. If you insist on saying København and not Copenhagen, you get to have a little pretentious discussion explaining what you meant to every person you talk to. Ditto for Folks-vagen.
- tchalla 6y ago
  > In practice, if a name has a common pronunciation within English, you show respect by using that pronunciation when speaking to native English speakers. Here's how I read this. "We as an English speaking group will continue to not make an attempt to pronounce it right even if we can. Once we don't we will have a common pronunciation that doesn't fit the original one. Once it becomes common, we will get offended if it is not pronounced in the common way that we as a group chose to actively ignore in the first place. If the original speakers insist, we will call them pretentious."
  - mlyle 6y ago
    > If the original speakers insist, we will call them pretentious." Way to overreach way beyond what I originally said. If I was speaking to someone I knew was Dutch, of course I would (try to) say "København." Then they'd probably laugh at me and we'd agree to call it Copenhagen. :P Or if I want to read your view in the worst possible way-- similar to how you've read mine-- "People who use the established pronunciation of a loanword or place in their native tongue are wrong. We should always seek to find where we are using words of foreign origin and correct them to be perfectly pronounced in their original tongue, even when this causes confusion and isn't helpful to people from the original place. Japanese gairaigo should be abolished and they should just say those words in the correct original English (or German or French). And those damn Frenchmen should stop calling the place I live Californie dans les Etats Unis, which is nothing like how I say it, and should stop calling me 'Michel' which sounds a whole lot like the female version of my name"
    - 6y ago
felipelemos 6y ago
Funny enough in my native language (portuguese), the h have no meaning on both cases.
natch 6y ago
Do you pronounce "Volvo" as "Fuhao" since it is Chinese owned now and that's their name for it there?
- ricardobayes 6y ago
  The realest of questions there. Or how Chinese bought Rover and renamed it to Roewe. It's a China-only brand now.
- atleta 6y ago
  I found a YT video saying it's "wo er wo". Which suggests they have a hard time pronouncing it, which shouldn't come as a surprise given how different their phonemes are. Approximating it, because you can't pronounce it is one thing. Not giving a shit, even though you do have the same word (i.e. folk) is another one.

sillyquiet 6y ago

To re-iterate my point, it's not about 'respect' (respect for whom, exactly and why?) it's about communication. If I were trying to say the word 'Volkswagen' to a German speaking person, I would do my best to pronounce it in a way they would understand. As most of the time I ever say the word 'Volkswagen' out loud it's to my fellow English speakers, pronouncing it in the expected English way seems way less pretentious and way more effective.

mixedCase 6y ago
>seems way less pretentious Or you could help do your part in normalizing pronouncing things correctly instead of perpetuating the perception that it's somehow "pretentious".
- sillyquiet 6y ago
  The pronunciation is already normalized in English, and most people already pronounce it correctly in English for other English speakers. Expecting non-German people to speak with German pronunciation is plain arrogant.
- fastball 6y ago
  They're speaking English. The correct pronunciation of a "V" is in fact to make the english "V" sound.
  - Bud 6y ago
    Nope. Proper nouns are to be pronounced in whatever way is dictated by the country of origin. Also, no, English is not very reliable when it comes to spelling vs. pronunciation. (Former diction teacher, here.)
    - fastball 6y ago
      I'm going to avoid being snarky and point out this is merely the way you taught it. There is not hard and fast rule that says you have to do it this way. Also, Vs are actually pretty consistent in English. Can't even think of a word with a V where the V doesn't sound like a V.
      - Bud 6y ago
        What's interesting here is that the exception proves the rule. V is actually the only letter in English that is never silent. Most other letters also have various possible renderings into pronunciation, especially the vowels—"i" for instance can end up being at least 5 different vowel sounds and also some consonant sounds. So yes. As I pointed out, English is extremely irregular orthographically, in stark contrast to languages like German, French, or Italian, all of which have extremely reliable and simple pronunciation rules.

fermienrico 6y ago

This is an unreasonable expectation. People should try but if they don't, there is no malice here. There are many languages around the world and it is impossible to remember every nuance of how to pronounce things. Ghandi is common pronounciation even in Germany. The Japanese might pronounce it something else.

tchalla 6y ago
> Ghandi is common pronounciation even in Germany. I don't think it is an unreasonable expectation to write the word "Gandhi" as "Gandhi". That's how he wrote the name, that's how he signed it and that's the actual spelling. I can understand the difficulty in pronunciation but getting the name right while typing it out is unforgivable in this century.
- fermienrico 6y ago
  I meant the pronunciation, not the spelling. Also, learning to forgive is a rare virtue these days. Entitlement and expection creates conflict. Learn to forgive others and you'll have a better time with everyone else. No one who even spells it as Ghandi means any malice or offense. So, it is a matter of technicality. Let go.
  - tchalla 6y ago
    I agree - learning to forgive is rare virtue. For example, I think we should also "learn to forgive" to people who point out that Gandhi is the right spelling. It's not meant as many malice of offence. So, it is a matter of technicality. Let go.
    - fermienrico 6y ago
      You're forgiven :), cheers!

ike77 6y ago

I would agree for a physical person name. But for a brand definitely not. It's the job of the brand creators to make sure that the name can be read and pronounced in the various target markets.

chefkoch 6y ago
To be fair, when the brand was created the germans wanted to change the target markets.

reaperducer 6y ago

It is respectful to at least attempt to pronounce names from different cultures In many cases, it is unnecessary and only makes the speaker look foolish. "Hyundai" is pronounces its own brand name differently in American and Korean TV commercials. Is Hyundai being disrespectful to Koreans? The goal is to communicate. Making communication more difficult is the opposite of the goal.

libria 6y ago
> In many cases, it is unnecessary and only makes the speaker look foolish. Comedic skits touch on this [1][2] and though a caricature, I think they capture the gist of how it's perceived when attempted. I think it stems from a desire for "cultural wokeness" which is a good thing and has its place, but as you say when communication is the goal, speak the language of the receiver. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKGoVefhtMQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKGoVefhtMQ [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWMp_z7Jnxw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWMp_z7Jnxw

mlyle 6y ago

In practice, if a name has a common pronunciation within English, you show respect by using that pronunciation when speaking to native English speakers. Otherwise you just cause confusion. The adapted names have their own history. If you insist on saying København and not Copenhagen, you get to have a little pretentious discussion explaining what you meant to every person you talk to. Ditto for Folks-vagen.

tchalla 6y ago
> In practice, if a name has a common pronunciation within English, you show respect by using that pronunciation when speaking to native English speakers. Here's how I read this. "We as an English speaking group will continue to not make an attempt to pronounce it right even if we can. Once we don't we will have a common pronunciation that doesn't fit the original one. Once it becomes common, we will get offended if it is not pronounced in the common way that we as a group chose to actively ignore in the first place. If the original speakers insist, we will call them pretentious."
- mlyle 6y ago
  > If the original speakers insist, we will call them pretentious." Way to overreach way beyond what I originally said. If I was speaking to someone I knew was Dutch, of course I would (try to) say "København." Then they'd probably laugh at me and we'd agree to call it Copenhagen. :P Or if I want to read your view in the worst possible way-- similar to how you've read mine-- "People who use the established pronunciation of a loanword or place in their native tongue are wrong. We should always seek to find where we are using words of foreign origin and correct them to be perfectly pronounced in their original tongue, even when this causes confusion and isn't helpful to people from the original place. Japanese gairaigo should be abolished and they should just say those words in the correct original English (or German or French). And those damn Frenchmen should stop calling the place I live Californie dans les Etats Unis, which is nothing like how I say it, and should stop calling me 'Michel' which sounds a whole lot like the female version of my name"
  - 6y ago

felipelemos 6y ago

Funny enough in my native language (portuguese), the h have no meaning on both cases.

natch 6y ago

Do you pronounce "Volvo" as "Fuhao" since it is Chinese owned now and that's their name for it there?

ricardobayes 6y ago
The realest of questions there. Or how Chinese bought Rover and renamed it to Roewe. It's a China-only brand now.
atleta 6y ago
I found a YT video saying it's "wo er wo". Which suggests they have a hard time pronouncing it, which shouldn't come as a surprise given how different their phonemes are. Approximating it, because you can't pronounce it is one thing. Not giving a shit, even though you do have the same word (i.e. folk) is another one.