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Meanwhile we've had >1 homicide per day in 2021 in my home city of Philadelphia. https://controller.phila.gov/philadelphia-audits/mapping-gun-violence/#/2021 h
by ddevault 6y ago
Meanwhile we've had >1 homicide per day in 2021 in my home city of Philadelphia.
https://controller.phila.gov/philadelphia-audits/mapping-gun-violence/#/2021 https://controller.phila.gov/philadelphia-audits/mapping-gun...
- deadbytes 6y ago>85% of murders committed by blacks, the next highest ethic group only being 9% Now compare this to the demographics of Norway
- bigfudge 6y agoCan you give the breakdown by income too? There may be drug and other cultural issues in big inner city areas that are predominantly black, but my strong prior is that this is a poverty/ disadvantage effect as much as race.
- _ttg 6y agoWell, access to guns is a pretty big factor as well. Sub-Saharan Africa is just as poor or poorer than inner city US yet has way lower homicide rates
- poisonarena 6y agoHere in Israel, tons of gun access for young men and there is very little domestic gun violence.
- _ttg 6y agoI was proposing another factor to add to his thesis. Israel is a pretty rich country.
- bigfudge 6y agoI guess poverty relative to cost of living and median wage may also be relevant
- deadbytes 6y agoDo you have these statistics? Or are you just making this data up because you want it to be true?
- throwaway0a5e 6y agoAnd how much of that is just the drug trade DIYing its own enforcement since it can't rely on the courts to provide threat of state violence to settle its disputes?
- lostcolony 6y agoThat's...not even close to reflective of the nationwide statistics. What percentage of Philly is black (anwer: 43.6%. So about 4x the national average. Whites are 44%). And while black convictions of murder nationwide are ~50-55% of the total (note: convictions), plenty of ink has been spilled over why that's the case; numerous systemic problems in the US that...yeah, Norway doesn't have. But in a distant, very indirect route I sort of agree with you - the fact Norway didn't bring in slaves (though they did profit from slavery) does mean its current issues with racism manifest very differently.
- unishark 6y agoSlaves were called thralls in Scandinavia.
- lostcolony 6y agoYes, at the same time other parts of Europe had serfs. The effects of that caste system have some current day ramifications (landed gentry vs everyone else), but it both allowed for people to become free, and it was abolished by the 14th century. As compared to the African slave trade which was active less than 200 years ago, and which I was referring to. While Norwegians were active in the slave trade, they did not bring slaves back to Norway.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- ddevault 6y agoJust what are you trying to find out with this question?
- deadbytes 6y agoThe data that you posted shows two extremely clear trends, gun violence in Philly is commited overwhelmingly by men, and overwhelmingly by black people. Why men? Well I think its pretty obvious. Men are genetically more aggressive, and genetically much more prone to commit violent acts. Does saying this mean I am sexist and hate men? No, it's just an obvious observation from the data. An observation does not imply anything more. Ok, so why black people? This is where people's brains start freezing up from social conditioning. Nobody will let themselves analyse this in a logical manner, even though the data shows the exact same pattern and rationally the same factors should apply. You will only ever get name calling, knee-jerk responses and purely emotional, speculative arguments here. I encourage you to look at the data you yourself have posted and to draw your own conclusions.
- ddevault 6y agoA skillful evasion of the question. >I encourage you to look at the data you yourself have posted and to draw your own conclusions. This is quite irresponsible. You can't just leave it at "black men shoot more people than other demographics" and let the reader "draw their own conclusions", because on its own it seems very much like the conclusions you want the reader to draw are quite racist. On the face of it your comments look very much like other subversive racist comments that are often seen in less moderated forums than HN. You want people to draw conclusions from incomplete data which only considers the subject's race. They'll draw on those conclusions to, say, vote. If you don't want to engender a racist perception, then you need to dig deeper than race before you state your arguments. How does it correlate with income? Job status? What are the schools like in these areas? How does it compare to other populations? America has an institutionalized racism problem, which creates an environment from which these problems arise in predominantely nonwhite areas. Don't mix up cause and effect. Pointing out the demographics in this dataset, then complaining that no one wants to have that discussion due to some perceived social taboo, is a bad faith, racist argument.
- dang 6y agoYou can't do this on HN and I've banned the account. Please don't create accounts to break HN's guidelines with. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- poisonarena 6y agoI understand that the comment that was flagged and deleted might have been borderline flamebait, but to me it is interesting and worthy of intelligent discussion. I also noticed you ignored several other comments that violated HN rules, but selectively allowed it such as: " Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. It tramples curiosity. "
- marshmallow_12 6y ago-I also noticed you ignored several other comments that violated HN rules, but selectively allowed it Being that dang is the mod he essentially is the website. Therefore it is foolish to tell him that he's wrong. It's akin to saying the colour of the site header is wrong. Better to instead inquire how he judges what is a sufficient breach of his guidlines, rather then telling him he ignores them.
- poisonarena 6y agoWell dang if you are reading this I also think that the color of the site should be turquoise not orange, and I think you are not following your own guidelines for your own website by selectively censoring people
- marshmallow_12 6y agoso stop using this website. Dang doesn't owe anything to you. I don't always agree with him, but at least i understand that i have no right to tell him what to do in his own site.
- dang 6y ago
- the_70x 6y agoMéxico: Pathetic!
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- max_ 6y agoI am not a US Citizen and have never lived in the US. I just finnished watching HBO's "The Wire" and my reaction was Jesus! Does is this really happen?
- hawkice 6y agoYes. The Wire is shockingly true to life. I cannot think of a detail that isn't modeled after a great deal of real life events that play out, over and over, in a loop, in every major American city. Edit: the McNulty arc in the last season probably doesn't happen particularly often. The alternative, that the murders are never found or investigated, is much more likely. I don't want to say what he does (it would be a spoiler), but yes, that was more character-driven than most of the dynamics on the show.
- hn8788 6y agoIt's only in small pockets of cities, not evenly distributed among everyone there. If you aren't involved in crime or live in those high crime areas, you'll probably never experience any violence. But yeah, there are parts of Baltimore that are just like what you see on The Wire.
- leetcrew 6y agoyou probably won't get murdered, but if you live in any walkable area of baltimore for a long time it's pretty likely you'll get mugged. source: everyone I know that's lived there more than five years.
- throwaway6734 6y agoThis is wildly inaccurate. Muggings are uncommon in neighborhoods like locust point,hampden, Roland park, federal hill, charles village, Patterson park, etc. Even in "rougher" areas of the white l (station north, Remington, Barclay) Muggings are still uncommon
- leetcrew 6y ago
- weinzierl 6y agoPhilly is bad but let's compare best to best and worst to worst. What is the US state or county with lowest homicide rate? Higher than Norway probably, but by how much? What is the worst in Europe?
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago> What is the US state or county with lowest homicide rate? The ones with cold winters and minimal urbanization.
- bigfudge 6y agoThe UK is more urban than US and has a small fraction of the murder rate.
- irrational 6y agoWyoming?
- dan_quixote 6y agoAlaska is ready and willing to prove you wrong.
- throwaway0a5e 6y agoAlaska gets all the people who struck out in the lower 48 so of course it's a little more spicy than it should be.
- cptskippy 6y agoPhiladelphia is a city. Pick any city in Norway and you get the same results.
- kwhitefoot 6y agoUS counties are quite small so it should be easy to find one that has a very low or very high murder rate.
- 6y ago