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What is the relative difference in emissions between a gasoline-powered car and an electric car that is recharged by power from a coal-burning plant?

by mikece 6y ago

AYBABTME 6y ago
Why do you find it useful to bring up this trope which is only tangentially related to the post?
- mikece 6y ago
  If WV's point is that they are emphasizing their they make electrical cars, and the assumption is that those are better for the environment than all other cars, then it's fair to question that assumption. If 90%+ of our power came from zero-carbon sources like nuclear then it would be a fair point but we're a LONG way from that.
  - srg0 6y ago
    > If 90%+ of our power came from zero-carbon sources like nuclear then it would be a fair point but we're a LONG way from that. Energy production in EU-27 in 2020: 38% renewables (growing), 25% nuclear, 37% fossil fuels (decreasing). That's already 63% from zero-carbon sources.
strict9 6y ago
Gasoline will always come from dead dinosaurs and plants but electricity doesn't come from 100% coal. And the ratio dropping changing fast as other forms get more inexpensive.
- mikece 6y ago
  Gasoline also comes from corn or anything else that can be distilled to ethanol. For greater calorific efficiency we should be looking to biodiesel as the environmental side effects are as minimal, you get more miles per gallon (km per liter), and the production of biodiesel via algae can happen efficiently in places not currently used for livestock grazing or growing crops.
oarsinsync 6y ago
Assuming this is a good faith question, the pollution generated by ICE cars driving 1+ metre away from me pollutes the air I breathe in a much more concentrated way than the pollution generated by a power plant 10+ miles away. Air pollution in cities is a real problem that nobody really talks about because there's no easy solutions. I don't drive an EV, because it's not practical / affordable for me yet. I hope this changes soon.
quonn 6y ago
Besides the fact that a coal-burning plant is more efficient, one difference is a cleaner city. Another difference is that it can be charged from other sources, e.g. solar at home. Another difference is that the grid is typically a mix, not just coal. And another difference is that the battery is basically an abstraction which abstracts away the power supply so this becomes a different (easier) problem to fix.
mint2 6y ago
If you want to know there’s plenty of reliable sources like the doe (and if you want confirmation bias rather than facts, there’s plenty of unreliable sources) Last time someone made a comment like yours, I actually tried googling and there’s a doe site that actually tells you the carbon emissions by state for an ev, hybrid or normal gas car given that states specific energy sources. Even W Virginia, the worst state I could find, having about 90% coal, gives much lower emissions for an ev than a gas car. And that’s with the current mix. It’s only getting better from here. And that’s the worst state! Here you go https://afdc.energy.gov/vehicles/electric_emissions.html https://afdc.energy.gov/vehicles/electric_emissions.html
- mikece 6y ago
  Thank you: this is EXACTLY the kind of information for which I was looking!
maerF0x0 6y ago
here's an article I usually reference when this kind of question comes up: https://web.archive.org/web/20170417164448/https://www.vancouverobserver.com/blogs/climatesnapshot/do-electric-cars-cause-more-or-less-climate-pollution-gasoline-cars-take-look https://web.archive.org/web/20170417164448/https://www.vanco... tldr; In dirty electricity regions, driving on electricity creates similar climate pollution to gasoline. Regions that burn mostly coal and natural gas to generate electricity create high levels of climate pollution for each kWh. In Alberta, for example, a Plug-In Prius will cause a similar amount of climate pollution driving on gasoline as it does driving on Alberta's electricity. Some electric car owners have worked around this problem by putting up their own solar panels, or by purchasing cleaner electricity directly from their utility.
- mikece 6y ago
  Thank you: this is EXACTLY what I was looking for!

What is the relative difference in emissions between a gasoline-powered car and an electric car that is recharged by power from a coal-burning plant?

by mikece 6y ago

What is the relative difference in emissions between a gasoline-powered car and an electric car that is recharged by power from a coal-burning plant?

AYBABTME 6y ago

Why do you find it useful to bring up this trope which is only tangentially related to the post?

mikece 6y ago
If WV's point is that they are emphasizing their they make electrical cars, and the assumption is that those are better for the environment than all other cars, then it's fair to question that assumption. If 90%+ of our power came from zero-carbon sources like nuclear then it would be a fair point but we're a LONG way from that.
- srg0 6y ago
  > If 90%+ of our power came from zero-carbon sources like nuclear then it would be a fair point but we're a LONG way from that. Energy production in EU-27 in 2020: 38% renewables (growing), 25% nuclear, 37% fossil fuels (decreasing). That's already 63% from zero-carbon sources.

strict9 6y ago

Gasoline will always come from dead dinosaurs and plants but electricity doesn't come from 100% coal. And the ratio dropping changing fast as other forms get more inexpensive.

mikece 6y ago
Gasoline also comes from corn or anything else that can be distilled to ethanol. For greater calorific efficiency we should be looking to biodiesel as the environmental side effects are as minimal, you get more miles per gallon (km per liter), and the production of biodiesel via algae can happen efficiently in places not currently used for livestock grazing or growing crops.

oarsinsync 6y ago

Assuming this is a good faith question, the pollution generated by ICE cars driving 1+ metre away from me pollutes the air I breathe in a much more concentrated way than the pollution generated by a power plant 10+ miles away. Air pollution in cities is a real problem that nobody really talks about because there's no easy solutions. I don't drive an EV, because it's not practical / affordable for me yet. I hope this changes soon.

quonn 6y ago

Besides the fact that a coal-burning plant is more efficient, one difference is a cleaner city. Another difference is that it can be charged from other sources, e.g. solar at home. Another difference is that the grid is typically a mix, not just coal. And another difference is that the battery is basically an abstraction which abstracts away the power supply so this becomes a different (easier) problem to fix.

mint2 6y ago

If you want to know there’s plenty of reliable sources like the doe (and if you want confirmation bias rather than facts, there’s plenty of unreliable sources) Last time someone made a comment like yours, I actually tried googling and there’s a doe site that actually tells you the carbon emissions by state for an ev, hybrid or normal gas car given that states specific energy sources. Even W Virginia, the worst state I could find, having about 90% coal, gives much lower emissions for an ev than a gas car. And that’s with the current mix. It’s only getting better from here. And that’s the worst state! Here you go https://afdc.energy.gov/vehicles/electric_emissions.html https://afdc.energy.gov/vehicles/electric_emissions.html

mikece 6y ago
Thank you: this is EXACTLY the kind of information for which I was looking!

maerF0x0 6y ago

here's an article I usually reference when this kind of question comes up: https://web.archive.org/web/20170417164448/https://www.vancouverobserver.com/blogs/climatesnapshot/do-electric-cars-cause-more-or-less-climate-pollution-gasoline-cars-take-look https://web.archive.org/web/20170417164448/https://www.vanco... tldr; In dirty electricity regions, driving on electricity creates similar climate pollution to gasoline. Regions that burn mostly coal and natural gas to generate electricity create high levels of climate pollution for each kWh. In Alberta, for example, a Plug-In Prius will cause a similar amount of climate pollution driving on gasoline as it does driving on Alberta's electricity. Some electric car owners have worked around this problem by putting up their own solar panels, or by purchasing cleaner electricity directly from their utility.

mikece 6y ago
Thank you: this is EXACTLY what I was looking for!